Hey guys. I’ve wanted to get a low C for a while. But theres not a ton of options. I’ve thought of getting a Howard but I’m worried it wont be my style. I dont like whistles that overblow too easily, I like the low end to be able to be pushed a little. But I haven’t been able to find any info on it. I know its the D headpiece on a C body, so its chance of overblowing too easily is pretty high. I dont NEED it to be able to take a big push. but I also dont want it to overblow super easily. There’s kind of a line where it overblows easily but not too easily, that I can deal with.
I understand that most people probobly haven’t played the C. But if you’ve played the D and have also played MK and others to compare to, I’d like to hear your thoughts on how it compared. I can then try and guess how the C would be haha. I’ve maybe heard that the D is already on the touchy side. In which case the C is a full no go. But I’m not sure.
I just recently purchased a used Howard Low C that was made several years ago (I’m not sure exactly when it was made but most likely not recently). I love it but I’m thinking it’s probably not your style of whistle based on your prior posts and the few pm’s we’ve exchanged.
Mine has the classic Howard 'sound" that I like. It however takes very little breath and can very, very easily be overblown on the low end. Mine is not a very loud whistle either, in fact it is fairly quiet, which works very nicely for my needs.
But based on how easy mine is to overblow the low C note I’m thinking unless he’s changed his design, you will not care for it.
I have the Howard Low D and the MK Low C. MK is breathier and the low end is quieter and easier to overblow than the Howard, as I’m assuming most low C’s are, not a booming bass by any means. But it’s a nice sound and pretty easy in the second octave. It’s taking some time to get used to the stretch, but coming along. (My middle finger is 3”, for comparison.) The MK is almost twice the price of the Howard Low C, so there’s that.
My assumption based on the D is the Howard will have a cleaner tone and stronger bass, but tougher in the upper register. I may try one out in February when they’re available again, so says their website.
Hey thanks for the info! You are most likely correct in that it overblows too easily for me. Good to know. whats funny, is if you just got that low C recently then its the one I thought of buying haha. I’m not sure how much of the mouthpiece has changed over time. I know he made more mouthpieces. But I’m not sure if the normal one changed or not.
Thanks, this is super interesting. My MK low D has such a strong low end, I was thinking their Bass C would aswell, I think its a bigger tube than the C. But this is also a low C vs low D. Do you find the Howard low D overblows easily and the MK C is even easier (similar to what TxWhistler described, weak and quiet low end)? Or do you find the Howard D to have a really strong low end and the MK is is just less strong but not too weak. If only we all had the same whistles it would be easier to compare haha. One of us has a Howard C, one an MK D, and one an MK C lol.
Because you have an MK C, whats the distance between the ring and pointer finger holes, on the right hand? I’ve always wondered what a low C would be. On my D its 2 31/32 inches.
And yes the Howard C is much less. I have a tendency to shell out top dollar for what I think I want but if I could spend half and get what I want I’d gladly do that instead haha. I think it just went out of stock because I thought it was in stock like a week or 2 ago when I looked.
Lower holes, pointer-to-ring finger, center-to-center is 3 3/8” on the MK Low C. I find I have to roll my fingers up slightly to get a good seal, of course with a pipers grip. (I’m very new to it, improving nicely.) The MK C is noticeably softer, breathier, and overblown easier than the Howard D.
For less stretch, you might look up “chimney” style holes. Can’t remember who or where.
Thanks, good to know. 3 3/8 is a bit bigger but thats expected. Luckily for my my hands are massive. But anything bigger than low D is still less comfortable than a low D. Also good to know about the MK C. I would have been really sad if I shelled out to buy one and was expecting my low D but bigger.
The angled chimneys is Carbony. Cool design. Costs a ton though. Carbony is also on my list of possible low C’s. May have the same issue for me though, not sure.
C&F member Angelic Beaver (Nathaniel Dowell on Youtube) has reviewed several Carbony whistles on his youtube channel. If I remember correctly on the low D carbony the low end was weak and he strengthened it by putting a putty wall around the mouthpiece exit hole (can’t remember the real name for that part). I don’t recall him ever reviewing a carbony C but he may have. See if you can contact him, he’s very helpful.
Since you said you sometimes will spend the money for what you want, have you thought about a goldie low C? They aren’t as much as a carbony C if I remember things correctly. I have no experience with goldies, just going off reputation.
Ya I think I’ve heard a few times of Carbony not having the strongest low end. I’ve watched a decent amount of Nathaniel’s videos. He’s actually the one I bought my first Burke from. Yes I cant forget about Goldies. I actually had someone PM me a while back and offer to sell me a goldie low C, but he asked for the price of a new one, so I declined hoping for a actual used deal. I heard a rumor that Collin isn’t selling low C and down anymore. But I’m not sure if that’s actually true, and if it includes the low C with the D body. My issue with getting a Goldie C new is thats a LOT of money for a key thats really not that important. But it is at least a good excuse to get a Goldie on my set. Because I’m running out of open slots for keys I need haha. Which doesnt mean I cant get more but it does give me less of an excuse to get them.
With our band, I play low Ds from Mike Burke (Viper), MK, and Howard (using the Reed mouthpiece). For the most solid sound and an absolutely honking low end, the Viper wins the contest. You will not overblow the Viper. However, there is a price to pay. And that price is the air required to play the instrument. The Viper’s diameter is larger than some low Ds. I find it difficult to finish musical phrases, quite often. I love the instrument, but it a challenge for me.
The MK has a nice solid low end, and is easy to hold and play, working well with a simple piper’s grip. The sound to me is OK, but not exciting in any way.
My Howard Black Silk is less expensive than either the Burke or the MK. While the low end is not as loud as either of the above, it is balanced very well, overall. I love the sound, especially using that Reed mouthpiece. While it definitely sounds like a low whistle, there is a …uh… reedy quality to the sound that is very nice. It is the first of the 3 mentioned low Ds that elicited positive comments from band members. The big thing for me, is that it uses air very sparingly, allowing much more musicality in one’s playing.
Again, I am describing the low D whistles, not low C. I owned a Goldie low C for a long while, but I am truly not a large human being, and playing it in public was always risky, even with piper’s grip.
Thanks for the input Byll! I have a love hate relationship with my Burke F. The low end is so big. The air requirement a little questionable. I wish there was a whistle with the low end of a Burke but not the air use. But I’m going to safely assume they are connected. I’ve been slowly falling more in love with air efficiency, so I see how thats a good benefit for the Howard. Which is why I’ve been pushing away from Burkes. I’m trying to find a good middle ground like MK or Reyburn that are air efficient and still have a strong low end, even if its a little less strong.
How did the Goldie C compare in the low end department VS your low D’s? Because I should definitely consider Goldie as one of the better options for what I’m looking for. And was it the small or Bass bore, and soft/med/hard blower?
My Goldie low C was small bore, medium blower. The low C Goldie whistle I received from Colin was a wonderful instrument, and played very much the same as his Overton low D. The only reason I no longer play my dark blue anodized Overton in public, is that in concerts on hot days, it is slippery for my hands. As I have said, my hands are not large. The C was truly too much whistle for me to handle.
I find the Howard finish on either the Black or Black silk - plus the lighter weight of the instrument - make handling the Howard low D to be much easier than with some other low D whistles.
Regarding the Carbony whistles, I’ve tried the low D with the old mouthpiece and the new mouthpiece with the integrated “air dam”. The new mouthpiece makes the low end of the D a lot stronger so I wasn’t constantly overblowing it but it’s still a quiet whistle (quieter than Dixon polymer low D but more balanced between the octaves). Also I feel like I slightly preferred the sound with the old mouthpiece.
I returned the low D in exchange of the low C (new mouthpiece with air dam) and I like it a lot. The bore is so narrow and the holes so small and close together than it feels like I’m playing a much smaller whistle, however the tone of the low C is a bit muffled and very airy. The 2nd octave has an almost shakuhachi-like sound
I just remembered that Goldfinch also makes a low C which is seemingly very nice (I have the low D and it definitely doesn’t jump the octave unless I tell it to). I’m still debating it myself but I might just order one cause I like the sound of the low D a lot and feel like the low C would complement my Carbony with its pure tone.
Just played my Howard low D (the older version before they re-designed the mouthpiece) today because of your thread. Mine doesn’t overblow easier than any other low D I compared it to – I compared it to the Thunderbird and V4 from kerrywhistles. Need to find my MK “Kelpie” so I can compare it to that one too.
But so far, what I noticed was – I can’t stand the metal taste in my mouth anymore from the aluminium low Ds. Never was a problem but it is now – strange, I must be getting older. The Howard plays fine. In fact I think it is harder to overblow because of the huge bore – the bore is larger than on most other low Ds. I think the Howard low D does in fact look like a low C with a shorter tube. I didn’t find anything “touchy” about its overblowing capacity. I have no idea how the new one plays though. Always wanted to order the new “reedy” mouthpiece but never did it.
Okay – found the MK Kelpie – almost no difference for me in overblowing the low D into 2nd octave D. One thing I noticed – the sound of the Howard stays more “focused” when pushed. The MK gets rather breathy just before it reaches the 2nd octave. The break between 1st and 2nd octave sounds cleaner on the Howard and diaphragm vibrato sounds more expressive, too – on the MK it sounds rather mushy and not as clean, which might be my bad technique or the fact that I haven’t played low D in ages (I stick mostly to the flute nowadays). YMMV however. So take this with a grain of salt as I have the older version which is no longer available. And many think the Howard has a strange, organ-pipe sound. I quite like it however.
I agree with you that the Howard D is not easy to over blow. I bought a brand new Howard D last year from him. Mine (the newer model mouth piece) was not easy to over blow either. It had a very good strong low end and you had to push it a bit to get the upper 2nd octave. It definitely had the characteristics of a large bore whistle. I too like the sound of the Howard. I sold mine just a few months ago and immediately regretted it. When I found a used Howard Low C for sale I gladly bought it. It seems to be the same bore diameter as my former Howard D whistle (about 25mm). I don’t have the D any longer to compare it lengthwise to the C but comparing it to my MK low D the Howard C is about 2.25 inches (approx 57mm) longer than the MK D. That extra length on the C may cause it to act more like a narrow bore whistle and thus be easier to overblow.
I too am thinking of trying out the new “reedy” mouthpiece on my C (if he will confirm that it will fit the C) but by the time I add postage to the cost of the new mouthpiece it will cost me just over $100 and that’s about 30% more than I paid for the used C whistle.
Huh, I’m getting a lot of mixed information. I’d think if the D was hard to overblow the C wouldn’t be super easy, it would just be less hard. But its sounded sofar like the C is definitely on the easier side?
And I think its quieter, especially in the low end, vs MK and others? I usually put hard to overblow and strong (louder) low end together but I guess it could be hard to overblow but still not loud?
Because so far I’ve heard that its quieter and softer blowing than an MK, and that its just as strong as an MK.
In other news. I got a Reyburn Aluminum low D with an extra low C# body, came in yesterday. Only took a couple weeks to come in from date of ordering. My excuse was I’ve wanted a low C# because some of my favorite songs are in C#. The thing has such a strong fat low end. Its like a Burke thats air efficient and chiffy. Definitely stronger low end than the MK. Also harder to overblow than the MK. For some reason I thought that MK were maybe on the harder to overblow side but I’m thinking that MK are actually in the middle. Which would make it less surprising if Howard and others overblow similarly to a MK. They Reyburn could probobly have a low C body and still overblow as hard or the same as an MK. So I’m adding that to my list of options. But getting a little variety in my whistle stash wont kill me. And my bank account will be happy if I dont buy another Reyburn haha. So I’m still considering other, hopefully cheaper options.
mixed info indeed. I think some of that might be because of variation in the design and different personal playing styles. For example - embouchure, even though more relevant for flute, does have an influence on the sound of a whistle and how easy or hard it is to overblow. Rule of thumb is, a more relaxed embouchure with less tension in the lips and especially the cheeks produces a stronger low end and more breathy sound. Tony Hinnigan is a master of that technique. Even Phil Hardy himself said that he is amazed at how breathy the V5 sounds when Tony plays it.
Concerning the MK (and mind you, I only own the cheaper Kelpie) - I think it actually easy to overblow. The hardest to overblow low D with the strongest sound I have ever played is the Qwistle. Unfortunately no longer made. What a beast it is.
Yes this is exactly how I have to play my Reyburn. Trying to hit the top of second octave just by blowing hard with a fat stream of air would be really rough haha. More new players need to know how this works. I probably didnt know how to do this for at least a year of playing. This could also be why a lot of newer players tend to go for easier blowing whistles.
mixed info indeed. I think some of that might be because of variation in the design and different personal playing styles. For example - embouchure, even though more relevant for flute, does have an influence on the sound of a whistle and how easy or hard it is to overblow. Rule of thumb is, a more relaxed embouchure with less tension in the lips and especially the cheeks produces a stronger low end and more breathy sound. Tony Hinnigan is a master of that technique. Even Phil Hardy himself said that he is amazed at how breathy the V5 sounds when Tony plays it.