I’ve played the 5 string, Scruggs style for a few years and would like to switch to Irish Tenor. Any help along the way would be handy..I don’t yet own a tenor, suggestions?
I’ve fooled around with the tenor banjo. I sure like the sound of them, and you don’t have to play all those finger rolls like you do on the 5-string. One major difference between the traditional tenor banjo in the U.S. and the Irish tenor banjo is the stringing and tuning. Generally, the American tenor banjo uses a C-G-D-A tuning, while most Irish players use a G-D-A-E tuning- which is more like the tuning of mandolin or fiddle. However, too use this type of tuning, you’ll probably need to completely change the strings. Once the strings are changed, it’s pretty much like playing a mandolin; except the scale is much longer. Good luck and happy pickin’.
Bartleby, I have to ask a naive question. Do Irish banjo pickers use fingerpix, plectrums or no pix? I am really fond of Seamus Egan and what little I have heard of Kevin Griffin. They do what seems like a mandolin thing of quick repeated notes in place of rolls.
How do they do that?
I have a turn-of-the-century banjo-guitar(strung with nylon) and I sometimes play reels and hornpipes with just my fingers and was wondering how I would fake it…
its a tremolo (spell check?) brace your thumb against your index and then go back and forth quickly with your index finger across the string you are sounding. You can get the same effect doing a very quick alternate finger pluck usually using the index and middle finger. This way only works on one string. The tremolo technique can actually be done on two strings at a time.
[ This Message was edited by: dd on 2002-04-19 01:09 ]
Thanks dd. But are they using just their real fingers or those steel or plastic fingerpick things?
On 2002-04-18 23:08, DaveG wrote:
I’ve played the 5 string, Scruggs style for a few years and would like to switch to Irish Tenor.
Have you heard Chris Grotewohl play Irish music on 5-string. He uses “single string style” of the general sort developed by Don Reno. He’s really good. We have a couple of people who come to the local session who play tenor. My opinion of tenors played at that level is very, very low. They ought be be banned from playing in publick until they’re approximately as good as Mick Moloney.
Steve-clawhead.
On 2002-04-19 01:59, The Weekenders wrote:
Thanks dd. But are they using just their real fingers or those steel or plastic fingerpick things?
From what I can see, most Irish tenor banjo players use a flatpick.
You can get some info here:
http://www.irishbanjo.com/main.html
bye
Bill
Thanks all. I checked out the website. This is great. First I find out about whistle tweaking. Now it turns out that these guys make “thimbles” out of pvc pipe…
Lots of space age technology in the ancient arts! Remember the movie: “One word --Plastics!”
I ordered some of those Alaskey pix which are somewhere between an old-style fingerpick and a real thick fingernail. I think they will work like a thimble…
I’m also a tenor banjo player, primary instrument is an old short scale Bacon and Day, also have a custom Sully… I use Dunlop Tortex .50 picks primarily, with very heavy stringing on the instrument.
It depends on the player. I am a rarity I dont use ANY picks on guitar or banjo.(dont use them on guitar either…only on mandolin). I just use my nails. The alternate finger tremelo can be done with finger picks on, so can the trilling one depending on the finger picks. The trilling works fine with a flat pick, but you can’t flat pick the alternate finger strum. Both work fine for fingers. IF you are still playing on a nylon string banjo…there is really no reason to use finger picks, finger nails give a better sound on the nylon strings.
[ This Message was edited by: dd on 2002-04-19 18:42 ]
OK let me ask a really stupid question…Can I put a 4 string bridge on my 5 string, change the strings, and start that way until I can afford a new instrument?
Sure, why not…
Dave;
You can put a tenor banjo bridge on your 5-string banjo, but there are a couple of things you should be aware of:
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You probably won’t want to use regular banjo strings, You need something a little heavier to be able to use the Irish tuning.
Check out http://www.irishbanjo.com/ to see what string gauges you might use. Click on the “FAQ” section. -
A five string banjo has a considerably longer scale than a tenor banjo. The tenor banjo scale is almost like that of an octave mandolin, but a five string banjo’s scale is almost like that of a guitar.
If you stick with it and you’d like to buy a tenor banjo, I’ve got an old Regal I’d sell at a reasonable price. Just contact me.
…always after me Lucky Charms!
[ This Message was edited by: Bartleby on 2002-04-19 22:24 ]
Only banjo at my house is a banjo ukulele…
Dave,
Walton’s puts out a good tutor by Gerry O’Connor (book and cassette, although they may have a CD by now) and a video is also available. Seamus Egan, of Solas fame, also has a video tutor on the market. Of the two, I much preferred the Gerry O’Connor book and video. I think they’re more user-friendly, especially for a beginner. The book also contains a short history on the tenor banjo by Mick Moloney. Most, but not all, Irish music banjo players use GDAE tuning. I believe Barney McKenna from the Dubliners is credited with applying the fiddle or mandolin tuning to the tenor banjo (which would then make it a baritone banjo, but that’s another story). Gerry O’Connor Plays in CGDA tuning but his tutors are done in the “Irish” GDAE tuning. Most Irish players I know use a 17 fret (that’s the number of frets from the nut to the body) resonator banjos (a resonator is the circular piece of wood on the back of the banjo. 19 fret banjos are also perfectly acceptable for playing Irish music.Unless you live in an area where there are a lot of Dixieland bands or traditional Irish musicians ( the only people who use tenor banjos) they are usually obtainable at a decent price. Having said that, an entry-level Ludwig Kingston or Vega style N can be had for a couple of hundred bucks but a Bacon Silver Bell Ne Plus Ultra can easily go for five figures. I have two banjos that I play. One is a circa 1920’s Bacon Peerless, a mid-priced resonator model, and the other is a 1920’s Orpheum # 1 open-back that I found at a flea market. I put some time and money into it (new planetary tuners, new head, nut, bridge and I steamed and straightened the neck) and it’s now an absolute gem. This is not the route you should take as a beginner, though. Buy the best instrument you can afford that’s ready to play. I buy my strings mailorder from Bernunzio Vintage Instruments in Rochester, N.Y. I’ve dealt with John and his wife for years and they’re reputable and honest. I just recently bought an old lefty Martin from them, sight unseen, and I wouldn’t do that with anyone else.
Dave, I forgot to add that if you want you can e-mail me and I’ll try to answer any other questions you might have. Welcome to another oppressed minority (banjo players). What’s the difference between a banjo and an onion? Noone cries when you chop up a banjo…
Well thanx.. I contacted Goldtone to see if they will swap necks and put a tenor neck on my 5 string. I’m sure they will if the price is right, but first I have to sell an unused guitar amplifier to finance the deal. In the meantime I’ll keep plucking away(on a mandolin since it’s tuned the same)..
Okay, I don’t know if all of these questions were answered(at least in quite this way), but here’s some brief examples of the difference(s) between 5-string and Irish tenor:
With the tenor, you are generally playing in GDAE (an octave below the mandolin), although there are a few Irish players who use the Dixie-land CGDA tuning(Gerry O’Conner is one and his speed and improv on the instrument is mind blowing).
With the tenor you are playing a straight melody single-string. No chordal accompanyment and usually not even any droning from the other strings(however some of the more rhythmic players will kind of strum several strings as they play the tune).
The tenor is usually played with a thumbpick, although a few players use a thimble (a small piece of PVC with the tip slanted and sharpened on the end of the finger(Tony Sullivan of Manchester, England is notible for this. It’s amazing. He has no flexiblity from the thimble whatsoever and yet he can fly with it!)
Finally, ornaments. Unlike the fiddle or other instruments, the banjo has little resonance. Rolls, graces, crans, taps, cuts, and those various other Irish ornaments simply will not work they way they would on a fiddle. So triplets are the main ornament used. But, don’t think that makes it easy. Firstly, you can do a simple triplet on a string(open or fretted). These can take longer to get than you might think. A more complex form of this is the moving triplet which employs playing a triplet while at the same time playing two or three ascending or descending notes. There can be almost as much work done with the left hand as with the right. Various flicks and techniques might not have quite the same effect as a roll, but they can bring out the crispness in a triplet.
There are as many styles of tenor playing as there styles on other IrTrad instruments. However, the theory I’ve come up with is that some banj players are influenced by the fiddle and others are influenced by uilleann pipers. Players like Seamus Egan or Mick Moloney tend to play a lot of moving triplets
(set up very similar to how one might set up triplets on the pipes) almost popping tight, crisp triplets onto the beat, whereas some other players tend to have a more spacious style of playing with long, roll-like triplets kind of flowing off the beats. Also some players will play with much more rhythm and “swing” than others.
Just another note on tenor vs. five-string. I know of a number of players who play both, including one guy in one of the bands I play with. He is one of the best 5-string bluegrass/old time players in the south-east and he’s also quite a good tenor player (as well bouzouki and fiddle and guitar in various degrees). So it can be done! It just takes gaining an intimate knowledge of Irish music(and this is simply based on how much you are willing to work at it) and getting used to the instrument in general. It’s just practice, really! I’ve been playing for about 3 1/2 years now and I’m still getting the hang of it.
Zac
Can anyone recommend a decent tenor banjo to get started on for around $200? I play flute, pipes, and guitar, but I really like the sound of the tenor banjo and I’d like to get started on it. I know that isn’t much money but I would like to hear if it is possible to get a decent one for that price. Thanks, William
I tried the Gold Tone Irish tenors at the NAMM show and found them to be a very good value and sounded just fine for around $300.00.