Hi, guys, Thanks so much for all your previous help. By the way, I took everyone’s advice and kept with the B flat gen. I love it now - it is one of my favorites.
OK, new question. I tend to buy quite a lot of books, in fact I did a little figuring yesterday and realized I have more invested in whistle tutorials at this point than in actual whistles One of the books in the collection is Bill Och’s Clark Whistle book. I have been working through it one page at a time. I recently bought Gray Larson’s Whistle Toolbox. My goodness, what a book. I haven’t played from it at all, just read it. My dilemma; which should I play through first? Should I get grounded in some tunes, or should I start working on the ornamentation? Gray Larsen’s stuff sounds like a good way to gain proficiency with Irish ornamentation, but it also sounds like a lot of time playing cuts, rolls, and all the other little diddlebops. I KNOW I should work harder, but I find myself playing with the whistle finding such joy in picking out favorite tunes and embellishing them the way I feel the music. Which is probably wrong, wrong, wrong, because I am realizing that Irish music is a real art and I am probably doing it wrong - which makes me feel even guiltier but I still enjoy just playing. What to do, where to start?
As a beginner myself, I would say to do both. I am learning a couple of tunes - Leitrim Fancy, Merrily Kiss the Quaker’s Wife, Boys of Balisodare.
However, I have also spent a considerable time on the ornamentation parts of Grey Larsen’s Whistle Toolbox book.
The sections on ornamentation are superb (IMHO), and because they’re really important to Irish whistle music, I suppose that they should be learnt as soon as possible.
For me, I am concentrating on the Leitrim Fancy as it sounds good at a slow pace and in a previous thread, I was advised where to put simple ornamentations. My plan it to be able to play this slowly, but “perfectly” before I bring it up to speed. Meanwhile, the sections in Larsen’s book are great for practicing alongside the tunes. I would love to learn a whole bunch of tunes immediately, but then I would get bogged down. Something I remember happening when I was playing a lot of classical guitar. I would know a lot of tunes and be able to get through them, but couldn’t play any of them to a standard at which I thought they were acceptable to be heard in public.
Of course, I also have the music for Si beag, Si Mor, and a few others that sound real nice, but that I have to wait until I have others under my belt. My whistle eyes are bigger than my whistle belly!
Thanks for the input. I know very well about having eyes bigger than ability. I also play mountain dulcimer; have gotten into the very bad habit of doing what I call the hummingbird thing; I skim from song to song, never really learning anything, but trying a little of everything. As a result, I can play very few tunes well enough to play with anyone else. I am going back and trying to mend my dulcimer ways and determined not to make the same mistake with whistle. I like your suggestion of doing a little of both. I’m glad you like the Whistle Toolbox too.
It depends on what your goals are. If you’re playing only for the joy of playing then why worry about what is correct? If you want to play Irish music with Irish musicians, then you will need to learn from the Ochs and Larsen books. Either way, don’t make it a chore. Play for fun and learn as you go.
I would argue that even if you’re playing for fun only, then it is still best to learn to play any instrument “properly.” I expect that what you mean is that you shouldn’t get hung-up on technique but ensure that playing the instrument always remains fun.
Either way, you’re right that playing should ultimately enjoyable. In all my years of playing classical guitar, I never learned scales in depth. I would use the Trinity College music exam pieces as a resource for material, but never bothered taking the exams. In other words, while I learned to play the pieces in a “technically” correct manner, because I wasn’t playing for a grade, I could enjoy my playing. Mind you, I expect that learning more than the basic scales could have been very useful in other, non-obvious ways - Ah Well.
For me, I have found that the discipline of playing through the exercises on strikes in the Larsen book has helped me tremendously. My next plan is to scan his exercises and cut and paste them onto the fewest sheets of paper as possible. Then when I practice, I do not have to thumb from page to page (his book never stays open on the music stand), I glance at the clock and spend 5 to 10 minutes on the exercises. They are good for technique as well as warm-up. Then I work on a couple of tunes, then return to a few exercises for a mental break, etc. It is important never to let the exercises get boring!
You should also not forget to listen a lot to Irish music. It helps a lot when you “know” how it’s supposed to sound as there are a lot of nuances that get lost when the music is “translated” into sheet music.
-It definitely helps to become a bit obsessed about Irish music and whistles…
I’m reading the Grey Larsen “The Essential Guide to Irish Flute and Tin Whistle” and just read the part where he says the most important part of practicing is listening – to yourself and to others. And also the important thing is to play the tune slowly and correctly before speeding up.
I agree, for now. By the time you finish that book and can play most of the tunes with confidence, you’ll have a good basic idea of what the ornaments are and where they belong. Then, you’ll really start to benefit from the Larsen book. Definitely keep listening to as much music as you can too. And don’t be afraid to do your own thing. Keep it fun.
This, of course, opens the can of worms that is the definition of ‘correctly’ and ‘properly.’ If by properly we mean good posture and embrochure and having your hands in roughly the right places and such then yeah, enjoyment willl be higher if one learns and plays by the basics, unless you like reinventing the wheel. But if one means that one must learn proper Irish technique even if you only want to play for yourself or for your circle of friends or for church or something, then your second sentence is true. Actually your second sentence is true either way.
I have a friend who is a classical flute player who plays the whistle using strictly classical techniques. He enjoys himself immensely and plays beautifully. For me it’s not ‘correct’ but he’s a hell of a lot ‘better’ than I am, and most non-Irish listeners would judge him the superior player.
I did mean posture, hold, etc., rather than playing in a classical style, which may work but doesn’t seem to be the Irish or folk style.
Listening to other players is certainly what has inspired me to play, and I keep listening. It is certainly to be recommended. In fact after years, I managed to find a vinyl version of the Bothy Band’s Out of the Clouds Into the Sun. My wife hadn’t heard it and exclaimed that the female voice reminded her of her Nightnoise CD’s. I explained that I doubted it would be the same singer because the Bothy Band were very definately Irish, while Nightnoise were American. She proved me wrong!
Anyway, I haven’t seen the Ochs book. I do have L.E. McCullough’s tutor. It has a good number of tunes, but he really skimped on the “tutorial” part.
I got the McCullough tutor as a beginner and I found it to ramp up from begnner stuff to hard stuff a little too quickly without taking time work into the meat of it. Also the ‘learning’ tunes were maybe a little difficult for beginners. JMHO. Ive only glanced at the Ochs. The Larsen book is comprehensive and filled with stuff, but may be daunting for the beginner. You need to really go slow a page at a time and don’t worry about the 250 pages ahead.
Don’t forget to play tunes you like. If you hear a tune you really enjoy, listen to it until it is stuck in your head then figure out how to play it. I’ll leave the discussion of learning by ear versus using the dots for another day. There are many good tune books around with the “standards” in them. “Irelands 110 Best Tin Whistle Tunes” by Clare McKenna is a good one and both the Ochs and McCullough books have lots fo tunes in them. All three come with CDs so you can hear the tune in a simple setting after you’ve fallen in love with it on the commercial CD of your favorite group.
Learning tunes you enjoy makes practice fun and keeps you motivation up. You’re learning the same stuff, just using a melody you enjoy rather than the one in the tutorial.
One thing I really like about the Larson book is his emphasis on weaning away from the printed page as much as possible. I notice that the songs I learn from the printed page tend to sound stilted and artificial. But the ones I learn by ear because I truly love the song - those are the ones that seem to come to life.
One piece I am working on because it is such a hoot - O’Carolan’s Concerto. I have it in dulcimer music and the person transcribing it for dulcimer very generously also put the notes as well as tab. What fun!!! I can’t take it anywhere up to speed but I love playing with it. Does O’Carolan also count as “traditional Irish music”?
Yes, he emphasizes that repeatedly. I’m reading his flute and tin whistle book right now and he’s driving me crazy in that certain things he has already (in the first 6 or so chapters) repeated so many time it’s making me crazy! I’m a writer so I know it’s important to repeat things, but man…
One of the books in the collection is Bill Och’s Clark Whistle book. I have been working through it one page at a time. I recently bought Gray Larson’s Whistle Toolbox. My goodness, what a book. I haven’t played from it at all, just read it. My dilemma; which should I play through first? Should I get grounded in some tunes, or should I start working on the ornamentation? Gray Larsen’s stuff sounds like a good way to gain proficiency with Irish ornamentation, but it also sounds like a lot of time playing cuts, rolls, and all the other little diddlebops. I KNOW I should work harder, but I find myself playing with the whistle finding such joy in picking out favorite tunes and embellishing them the way I feel the music. Which is probably wrong, wrong, wrong, because I am realizing that Irish music is a real art and I am probably doing it wrong - which makes me feel even guiltier but I still enjoy just playing. What to do, where to start?