American Folk Music

[Peter_Duggan]

@Jleo Fipple

If you like please post your American folk favourites.

Pete Seeger.

[German_Whistler]

@Nanohedron

@German Whistler

but i seems if a german call an english man an american, for some people thats intolerable

I couldn’t see why; to me that’s just a simple mistake, for whatever reason. Language in common is as likely as any.

As I hinted at earlier, Donovan achieved such a degree of popularity in the US that after all these years I wouldn’t be surprised at all if some Americans nowadays simply assume he was American too. Of course, no one ought to make that mistake with the Beatles, but then, unlike Donovan’s case, their being British was a huge part of the selling point - the so-called “British Invasion”, and all that. Donovan? He was just another hippie.

couldnt an native english speaker recognize his accent?

[German_Whistler]

@Feadoggie

@German Whistler

but wait, arent many americans not origin english, scottish, irish, french, even german and whatever else descent?

And what’s your point in that? …

the question is what is my point in other things i said and why i did, … just think about it or read again

[Nanohedron]

@German Whistler

@Nanohedron

@German Whistler

but i seems if a german call an english man an american, for some people thats intolerable

I couldn’t see why; to me that’s just a simple mistake, for whatever reason. Language in common is as likely as any.

As I hinted at earlier, Donovan achieved such a degree of popularity in the US that after all these years I wouldn’t be surprised at all if some Americans nowadays simply assume he was American too. Of course, no one ought to make that mistake with the Beatles, but then, unlike Donovan’s case, their being British was a huge part of the selling point - the so-called “British Invasion”, and all that. Donovan? He was just another hippie.

couldnt an native english speaker recognize his accent?

Sure, if you’re paying attention. The funny thing is, most Americans would have to hear him speak, not sing, to get that. Frequently enough I can’t necessarily tell if a singer is British. Of course there are exceptions, but that’s what they are: exceptions.

[Nanohedron]

@German Whistler

@Feadoggie

@German Whistler

but wait, arent many americans not origin english, scottish, irish, french, even german and whatever else descent?

And what’s your point in that? …

the question is what is my point in other things i said and why i did, … just think about it or read again

Sorry, that won’t do. In English we call that being coy (or at worst evasive), and though your command of the English language isn’t strong, I think a clearer explanation from you is an entirely fair thing to ask for. I know you are capable of that much.

[German_Whistler]

@Nanohedron

Sure, if you’re paying attention. The funny thing is, most Americans would have to hear him speak, not sing, to get that. Frequently enough I can’t necessarily tell if a singer is British. Of course there are exceptions, but that’s what they are: exceptions.

interesting
is it because they try to sing in a real good english or because of their accent isnt so strong?
also i always thought that specialy the scotts speak a real strong accent

… going to search for an interview with donovan to hear him speak now

anyway, i am out of this thread, all else i have to say, its to much off topic

about the rest, just because you asked and wanted an answere
maybe i missundrstood but i guess if someone makes a mistake or just dont know something, its possible to tell him another way as makeing (bad?) jokes?
anyway, maybe i missunderstood and its not important at all… but truth it, i am active in the world wide web since maaaaany years but nowhere i did feel such an importance about where you come from and not making any mistake about all belonging to american, specialy not as a german (this came up several times here already)…but maybe its just me

and anyway, its not important (to me anymore) and to much off topic

[Nanohedron]

@German Whistler

@Nanohedron

Sure, if you’re paying attention. The funny thing is, most Americans would have to hear him speak, not sing, to get that. Frequently enough I can’t necessarily tell if a singer is British. Of course there are exceptions, but that’s what they are: exceptions.

interesting
is it because they try to sing in a real good english or because of their accent isnt so strong?

I couldn’t say.

@German Whistler

also i always thought that specialy the scotts speak a real strong accent

Speak, yes, but sing, not necessarily. I must say that lack of an identifiable accent from Scottish singers surprises me. I don’t know if this is cultivated or what.

@German Whistler

maybe i missundrstood but i guess if someone makes a mistake or just dont know something, its possible to tell him another way as makeing (bad?) jokes?

I’m afraid I don’t understand the question.

@German Whistler

specialy not as a german (this came up several times here already)

You have always been the only one to bring up your nationality, and your assumption of others’ supposed issues with it, on the threads.

@German Whistler

…but maybe its just me

I think it is.

[Peter_Duggan]

@Nanohedron

@German Whistler

also i always thought that specialy the scotts speak a real strong accent

Speak, yes, but sing, not necessarily. I must say that lack of an identifiable accent from Scottish singers surprises me.

Surely (when we’ve some too Scottish even for most Scots) that depends on which Scottish singers and what they’re singing?

I don’t know if this is cultivated or what.

In the case of mid-Atlantic/pseudo-American accents, for sure!

[Nanohedron]

@Peter Duggan

@Nanohedron

@German Whistler

also i always thought that specialy the scotts speak a real strong accent

Speak, yes, but sing, not necessarily. I must say that lack of an identifiable accent from Scottish singers surprises me.

Surely (when we’ve some too Scottish even for most Scots) that depends on which Scottish singers and what they’re singing?

Yes, of course. I could have better specified that I was referring more to contributors within the pop genre such as the likes of Annie Lennox or Justin Currie. Killer stuff, but I confess I always longed for a bit more accent. That would knock me over with a feather.

@Peter Duggan

I don’t know if this is cultivated or what.

In the case of mid-Atlantic/pseudo-American accents, for sure!

And there you have it.

[Feadoggie]

@Nanohedron

German Whistler wrote:
also i always thought that specialy the scotts speak a real strong accent

Speak, yes, but sing, not necessarily. I must say that lack of an identifiable accent from Scottish singers surprises me. I don’t know if this is cultivated or what.

Listen to the first almost two minutes of this well known Donovan recording - the reason I alluded to it in the first place. Is that clear enough?
Perhaps it is not as clear the The Proclaimers 500 Miles.

Then we can get on Cayden for suggesting Joni Mitchell. She is technically an American. But there’s that “What’s an American?” question lingering.

Feadoggie

[Peter_Duggan]

@Nanohedron

contributors within the pop genre such as the likes of Annie Lennox or Justin Currie.

Hey, I was at school with Justin!

[Nanohedron]

@Feadoggie

Listen to the first almost two minutes of this well known Donovan recording - the reason I alluded to it in the first place. Is that clear enough?

Until he starts singing. “Wheeeere Ah wowna be…”

[Nanohedron]

@Peter Duggan

@Nanohedron

contributors within the pop genre such as the likes of Annie Lennox or Justin Currie.

Hey, I was at school with Justin!

Did he sound Merkin then?

[Peter_Duggan]

That’s a rhetorical question, right?

[Nanohedron]

Well, I was hoping you might have caught him practicing at it…

I know one Scotsman who does some wicked good imitations of Upper Midwest US accents, including the speech patterns. Makes me bust a gut laughing to have that mirror held up to me.

[I.D.10-t]

As to the question of accents, singing has prescribed cadence, syllables, stresses, long sustained vowels, and doesn’t have the inflections in the same way natural speech does. Non-English speakers can sing a song well with practice. From what I recall, in the past it is easier to make a completely artificial voice “sing” than to have what sounds like a natural speaking voice.

For some reason I cannot think of the words “American Folk Music” without thinking of the Folk revival, singing songs like Oh Shenandoah, and some of the blander tunes by Peter, Paul, and Mary. I am sure Lead Belly, Merle Travis, and others that I listen to sing “folk” songs, but It would seem odd to me to label them as such.

[Cayden]

Feadoggie,
You got me fair and square on Joni Mitchell. I had at some point in the past read biographical info on her and knew she was Canadian, but I forgot. Hey, it happens. Regardless, her music transcended international borders and she is a great folk musician.

Cayden

[Cayden]

I had also mentioned Bob Dylan, Woody Guthrie, and Pete Seeger, but somehow it was passed over?

Cayden

[Feadoggie]

@Cayden

Feadoggie,
You got me fair and square on Joni Mitchell. I had at some point in the past read biographical info on her and knew she was Canadian, but I forgot. Hey, it happens. Regardless, her music transcended international borders and she is a great folk musician.

She may have started out as a folkie. Joan Anderson was a folkie. Joni Mitchell’s been more of a Jazz musician and has been a Jazzer for much longer than she was a folk player - “stoking the star maker machinery behind the popular song”. I could drink a case of Joni Mitchel.
Just pulling your chain, Cayden.
And yes, Pete Seeger is “the man”.

[Innocent_Bystander]

Hmmm. Does John Martyn fall into/overlap/extend through the folk category?