I retied by chanter stocks on my Andreras Rogge bag full set and my Ray Sloan bag today.
The Sloan bag is air tight but the Rogge bag full set now has a very small air escaping I can not see it but can hear it.
Cheers
Ferg
Hi Ferg,
Can you feel the air leak with your fingers?
- J
A trick I use to make sure stocks have a tight seal is to use a slice of a bicycle inner tube as a gasket around the bottom of the stock (overlapping the tie-in groove). Not visible after tie-in and makes for a great long lasting seal.
There is also the trick with the microphone to find a hidden leak. You have no idea how much noise a little air will produce.
Wim
Forget all “fumbling”. It is a futile waste of time. Do again. A layer of cobbler´s wax between stock and leather always helps.
Earlier I untied the chanter stock on Rogge bag for full set and put edam wax as Andreas Rogge had but red cheese on the stock. I retied the stock again.
It is air tight now when I cover the hole with finger and also when put tape over hole. It is when I play the chanter I seem to be losing more air.
My Ray Sloan practice bag is air tight after retie of chanter stock I am 100% air tight when I play the chanter.
Cheers
Ferg
perhaps the stocks on the 2 bags come out at slightly different angles? that could conceivably cause either the stock to twist a bit when the chanter is moved side to side causing a leak between stock and bag, or maybe the chanter tube doesn’t seat right in the one stock and leaks there?
I use B and Q all purppose sealant for chanter stocks (NOT silicone sealant). It dries clear and is an excellent gap filler. It is not so strong that the stock can’t be removed if required. I don’t put it right round the stock, just on the side which lies next to the bag seam. Excess wipes off with water. Never fails.
Cheers
Richard
Hi Richard,
an “off topic” question: Would it perhaps also work as “instant bag seasoning”?
No, it remains a bit sticky. However we also use it for gluing two thicknesses of leather together for the bellows.
Richard
My Ray Sloan practice bag is air tight after retie again with chanter stock from Andreas Rogge fullset bag and when playing chanter.
I put the chanter stock from Ray Sloan practice bag on Rogge fullset bag but still losing air when playing chanter. I need more pumping of bellows.
Both chanter stocks made by Andreas Rogge
Rogge fullset made around November/December 2008
Sloan Bag made around January/February 2005 I think I will get a new Sloan bag for my full set
Cheers
Ferg
How much tension are you putting into the thread when you’re tieing in?
I’ve found that the only sure fire way to tie in without any leaks is to use a length of waxed polyamide thread, doubled over. I use a length of about 8 feet, knotted at one end. I then loop one end over a door handle or hook in the wall. This must be quite strong as you’ll be putting a fair amount of tension on it. The other end, I form a loop which when placed over the stock to be tied in will tighten under tension. I then wind around the stock to be tied in, using my body weight to keep the thread under tension and rotating the entire bag & stock assembly. It takes quite a bit for the thread to break ( the knot may come undone) so you can really get this nice and snug. I don’t have to use two rolls of leather each side of the seam when I use this method for chanter stocks, it will tie them in airtight as it is.
This has worked every time for me.
Jon
I use tie in cord used by highland pipe makers looks like waxed polyamide thread.
- I start by looping the thread under and pull with lots of tension with boths hand until finger skins has thread marks.
- Next I continue the wrap round again left and then right and loop thead under again and repeat the strong tension
- same again until I tie knot 3 times and cut and light match to burn to seal knot.
The above tying in steps worked for my Sloan bag with both stock from Rogge fullset and Sloan bag fully air tight
But not fully air tight on the Rogge full set.
Cheers
Ferg
Ferg,
your fathom-tension is much too weak. It will not work that way. Tie one end of the fathom onto a good, strong hold on the opposite wall (door handle or so). Twist the whole bag while wrapping the fathom on under a good tension. After fixing (as you described under 1) ) stick a suitable rod into the stock to keep it rectangular to the fathom.
I have used this method of tying in stocks when I got Andreas Rogge in 2007 to make me bellows and chanter stocks in plumwood and has be fully air tight on the Ray Sloan bag even when I retied again this week.
Yes the tie in thread tension is very tight as I was pulling very hard until thread grabs the bag leather tight.
On the Ray Sloan bag the chanter stock fits the neck of the bag very tight before any retying in stock
On the Andreas Rogge bag the chanter fits the neck of the bag it is very loose fit before any retying in stock.
I will need to get more tie in thread if I do retying again. I have Waxed Polyamide thread will that do for tying in stock.
Cheers
Ferg
You say the neck of the Sloan bag fits snuggly on the chanter stock, but that the Rogge neck is some what slack.
Have you used a little roll of leather, perhaps two, adjacent to the outside of the seam of the neck on the Rogge bag, once you have turned the loose part flat on to the stock. If two, it is one either side of the seam tight up against the bottom of the seam and the inside edge of the seam as it lies turned.
The latter particularly, forces the leather tight to the stock, but is better used with some sealant too, if you have some. The roll is in effect a gap filler, which is crushed into the bag and stock as you tie in. The folded seam when turned to lie flat can prevent the tying in twine from touching the small area under the ‘high’ part of the fold and ordinary neck leather. The roll sits there and is forced in when tying down.
Pipewort
In these sorts of cases the air leaks usually come from the point where the leather laps over itself. You’ll see a small triangular gap formed between leather and wood, as you begin tying in. It’s almost impossible to close this just by wrapping more tightly. The highland pipe trick of using small rolls of leather will work, if you are practiced at doing it. However you can also use a bit of blu-tack or similar putty, applied to the chanter stock and inside of the leather seam just at the point where the above mentioned gap forms. It doesn’t take much, but the exact placement of the blu-tack can be critical.
I prefer this to using sealant or glue here - contact cement can work, but it makes re-tying the stocks a lot more trouble and can be difficult to clean off of the chanter stock the next time you need to tie in a bag.
- Bill
Ran out of tie in cord so place order today for more.
Use Waxed Polyamide thread last night and put extra tension as wrapped thread around hammer handle but Waxed Polyamide thread not as strong as the tie in cord form highland bagpipes.
The Sloan bag still air tight after last night tie in but still not so good on the Rogge full set bag.
I will place an order with Ray Sloan as I very happy with the bag I use as a practice set 100% air tight.
Cheers
Ferg
Placed order for a Ray Sloan bag for my Rogge full set.
Will get Ray to tie in the chanter stock, bellows stock and brass mainstock cup.
While I wait for new bag for full set I will use the Ray Sloan bag practise set with my Rogge bellows.
When I receive more tie in cord from the Highland bagpipes I will have another practise at tying in Chanter stock.
Cheers
Ferg
Got more tie in hemp from bagpipes supplies
On the Rogge bag I tied in using the steps that was on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdpyUdlm1Ng
I then wrapped the remaining hemp lengths around a hammer handle standing on hammer I pulled the tension very tight and tied a knot 3 times
The bag is ok but not as air tight as I like but I am able to play the full set with wee bit more pumping of bellows I will get used to it very quickly.
Ray Sloan is making me new bag Quote from Ray below.
I have already started the bag and I’m currently about to give it its final dressing before stitching, so send your bits now. I will not need your chanter. I will only need your chanter stock - blowpipe stock and mainstock cup.
Cheers
Ferg