A word about Overton Whistles...actually a lot of words.

Whistle
1

I play a lot of whistles…occupational hazard.

Over the years I’ve played a lot of Overtons in every key imaginable. I always think they’re beautifully made and the tuning is spot on and they sound lovely but there are no Overtons in my rather large quiver of personal whistles.

Occassionally I get an “Easy blower”. I like these better than the standard Overton fair but even these have eluded permanent bonding.

I really want to love Overtons. I think the world of Colin and Brigitte and have had numerous wonderful experiences with them. Their customer support and support of whistlers in general is unsurpassed in the business.

A year or so ago I was talking to Colin on the phone and decided to go ahead and buy a few tooters.

Still with me? Hang in there. We’re getting to the interesting bit.

Not long ago, I posted a youtube video tooting an Overton. A thread ensued which became a discussion of how best to toot an Overton. Brigitte and Colin, having watched the video, recommended I loosen up my embouchure and quit clamping down on the fipple so aggressively. They said if I did so the tone would sweeten up considerably and I’d have better control in the second octave. “Hmmm”, said I, “I’m loosening up and not noticing much difference.” Brigitte sent a few PMs trying to clarify the point to little avail.

Yesterday Brigitte and Colin called me on the phone. He had a batch of whistles finished and wanted to play them for me so I could pick my personal tooters. I picked three in the keys I’d ordered.

Colin then gave me the most wonderful whistle lesson. We talked for almost an hour and he and Brigitte were finally able to wrap my brain around how to properly address a whistle in general and an Overton whistle in particular.

I have a tendency (especially when paying Overtons) to put the fipple between my lips and my lips between my teeth. I don’t always do it. But I almost always do it with Overtins for some reason. Colin and Brigitte told me to loosen up and pucker up and hold the fipple gently between my lips anterior to my teeth and relax.

I have an Overton here in the shop and spent the better part of the afternoon tooting it and figuring out what they were talking about.

I would like to report that they were absolutely right. The tone is markedly sweeter, the second octave markedly better behaved and the tonal palette vastly more varied. I absolutely love this whistle and can’t wait for the others to arrive. Also, the whistle is amazingly comfortable in my mouth. The fipple design (which I’ve never loved) is, as it turns out, perfectly lovely when used properly.

I just wanted to thank Colin and Brigitte publicly for their pains and time spent redeeming a wayward whistler. If you’d like to see a fairly bad way to hold an Overton in your mouth, watch the Youtube video.

Thanks Colin and Brigitte. :slight_smile:

Doc

2

a ringing…er tooting…endorsement.
Thanks Doc.

I’ve always been fond of my B. Overton low D, despite my general preference for little whistles.

3

Well, I mean I believe i am blowing into my current Overton properly, or atleast want to believe so, but that isn’t the point of my post :stuck_out_tongue:

Just seconding the comment where the Goldies are an absolute joy to work with. I just had a recent order and went through the same process of choosing a whistle in various keys ordered and the thoroughness was just mind blowing. There is no doubt that both Colin and Brigitte care about their whistles, and most importantly, whistlers. Just by talking to him I learned some things about tone that had never really occured to me as with Doc and having the fipple in your mouth, and that made the experience so rich. It furthetred the realization of just how well the Goldies understand the Overton whistle. What more could you want in a whistlesmith?

If I could afford it, I’d have a full sets of Overtons in tuneable and non, just because, hahaha.

4

The technique works for Susato’s too. After receiving a high D a couple weeks ago, I couldn’t believe how shrill the thing was on top compared to some of my others. After making the same lips adjustment you did, it sweetened right up and is as clean as I want to make it, even though it’s not in the same class as Overtons. Nice to know about Overtons too! Pretty typical of pro-instruments. Designed to be flexible, not necessarily easy to play. Thanks for the report.

5

You know I always forget the one thing.. Thanks Doc for the story and explanation, it’s the details that turn ordinary whistling into extraordinary whistling :slight_smile:

6

Doc, I’m glad you were able to solve your embouchure problem. Colin’s advice seems both good and obvious (and not just for Overtons). It does make me wonder how many whistle players have strange technical problems they might not even be aware of, because they’ve never received proper instruction. Quite a few, judging from some of the YouTube videos I’ve seen and clips I’ve heard. Problems like embouchure, hand and finger position, tongue position, breath control, etc. And I wonder how many of the sometimes odd and discrepant opinions of whistles reflect the same sorts of underlying technical issues. It’s something I’ve been thinking about lately anyway, so thanks.

7

Thanks for sharing that info. A good reminder that the whistle does require an embouchure.

8

Exactly.

There are several important take home messages here.

  • **- If You’re having problems with an instrument by a top maker that is favored by countless professional players…it’s probably you, not the whistle.
    \
  • If one is struggling with the instrument of a top maker, direct communication with the maker is likely to be more fruitful than discussing it here on the board and getting advice from a lot of people (like me!) who may or may not have any idea what they’re talking about.
    \
  • The tin whistle, while a delightfully simple instrument, deserves to be given the same focus, practice and competent instruction typically given to other more formidible instruments.
    \
  • Isolation as a player is bound to result in habits that will be detrimental to one’s playing.
    \
  • An hour with a really accomplished player/teacher yields more fruit than years and years of putzing around on your own. Workshops and/or private instruction are a great idea.
    \
  • Opinions here should always be taken with a grain of salt. Particularly if if those opinions are being offered by novices or by guys in Idaho that have been playing for years but still hold the tooter too tightly between their chompers.**

I’m going to start taking my whistling much more seriously. I’m a multi-instrumentalist, jack-of-all-trades musician. I’ve always just played the whistle and been content with my progress but it’s clear this little rascal deserves a great deal more of my respect and attention.

Doc

Disclaimer: The above opinions were offered by a guy in Idaho who, after years of playing, was still chomping his whistle too tightly

9

Exactly.

There are several important take home messages here.

  • **- If You’re having problems with an instrument by a top maker that is favored by countless professional players…it’s probably you, not the whistle.
    \
  • If one is struggling with the instrument of a top maker, direct communication with the maker is likely to be more fruitful than discussing it here on the board and getting advice from a lot of people (like me!) who may or may not have any idea what they’re talking about.
    \
  • The tin whistle, while a delightfully simple instrument, deserves to be given the same focus, practice and competent instruction typically given to other more formidible instruments.
    \
  • Isolation as a player is bound to result in habits that will be detrimental to one’s playing.
    \
  • An hour with a really accomplished player/teacher yields more fruit than years and years of putzing around on your own. Workshops and/or private instruction are a great idea.
    \
  • Opinions here should always be taken with a grain of salt. Particularly if if those opinions are being offered by novices or by guys in Idaho that have been playing for years but still hold the tooter too tightly between their chompers.**

I’m going to start taking my whistling much more seriously. I’m a multi-instrumentalist, jack-of-all-trades musician. I’ve always just played the whistle and been content with my progress but it’s clear this little rascal deserves a great deal more of my respect and attention.

Doc

Disclaimer: The above opinions were offered by a guy in Idaho who, after years of playing, was still chomping his whistle too t__ightly.[/color]

10

Thanks for the post! Is there any way that you, or someone else that understands this embouchure principle, could post a follow up clip so that newer players like myself that still don’t totally get this principle could see it?

11

I think I should probably stick to doing videos of how not to do it. :laughing:

Watch my site for these future videos:

  • How not to do a crann

    How to take breaths in the wrong part of a phrase

    How to play too quickly

    Sloppy ornamentation made easy

:smiley:

Doc

12

I have a tendency (especially when paying Overtons) to put the fipple between my lips and my lips between my teeth. I don’t always do it. But I almost always do it with Overtins for some reason. Colin and Brigitte told me to loosen up and pucker up and hold the fipple gently between my lips anterior to my teeth and relax.

It would seem that the shape of the oral cavity has an effect on the whistle’s tone and playability. I read somewhere on Wikipedia about this phenomenon-- something about the shape of the airstream as it enters the fipple. I think the tongue position, openness of the throat, and obviously breath pressure also play a role.

13

I think so too. We forget that the player’s body is half the instrument.

Doc

14

I did a post here a while back that dealt with details of whistle embouchure, and that met with a ho-hum reception, I think. Basically up-down, left-right, in-out, lip tension and mouth cavity. I’ll try to dig it out. But maybe your experience conveys the point better than my usual techo-speak. :slight_smile:

15

Yeah, we don’t want to talk about playing whistles we want to talk about getting whistles. :laughing:

Do.

I’d like to read it. :slight_smile:

Doc

16

OK, Doc, I found it:
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?p=788155&highlight=#788155

That whole thread is about whistle embouchure, so maybe worth reading through.

Here are links to some of my previous comments:
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?p=787534&highlight=#787534

And, no disrespect to the poster, here’s an example of a common attitude that leads to the kind of problems you experienced:
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?p=787816&highlight=#787816

17

For sure! The length and quality of the airway has a lot of impact on the sound that comes out of the whistle, that airway includes the part in the whistle and the part in your head. A smooth straight quick moving air stream makes a different sound when it passes the through the window than a more turbulent one.

Have a look at the easy vs. hard to play whistles. You’ll see that the “harder” ones allow the air more freedom either by being shorter from tip to window or taller (thicker?) from fipple to mouthpiece “ceiling.” These are relying on the player more to prepare the air for whatever sound they want. Almost like a flute player can play pure and sweet or dirty and growly. I find my mouth and throat move nearly the same if I’m playing the whistle or the flute. The lips have less work to do with the whistle of course, but it’s not zero.

18

Doc and MT thanks for the encouragement to pull out the Overton and try, try again :slight_smile:

PAX
pastorkeith

19

Do you think there might be attendant dangers in “proper instruction” too John? I’ve not the time to spend a long post on it, but there is something unsettling about the “this is the proper way to play a trad instrument” (even though I do it a fair bit myself in the course of lessons) that is reminiscent of the Grey Larsen book. (discl. do doubt it has good qualities etc. etc.). What do you reckon?

20

Yes, Ben, good point; the language is slippery here. By proper instruction I’d include encouraging self-instruction through imitation and experimentation. Part of learning an instrument is learning how to learn - becoming aware of the physical parameters that make a difference. And a tip from an instructor to think about, say, hand position or instrument angle may be more valuable in the long run than a rigid directive to “do it this way”.

By the same token, for beginners too many options can be counterproductive, and starting with one reliable technique as a basis for growth can be helpful. I know that in the few formal lessons I’ve given, I’ve had to start out correcting some basic flaws that were outside the envelope of good technique. And suggestions to at least “try it this way” have paid off in immediate improvement.

Hi Keith, nice to see you back.