Ok, this is just some thoughts. 1969 NASA landed a man on the moon. Man has proven himself in every field exept… making whistles in tune. It is just mind boggeling that people still can´t make it right. I mean, how hard can it be? If one make the prototype right, every whistle produce in a factory should be in tune, but alas… Generation are nice whistles but they are not in tune (A=440 Hz), neither with itself or with other instruments. Clarke Sweetone in C were also a big dissapointments. And I tryed Tony Dixon high D, also not in tune with itself. There are lots of examples of whistles out of tune.
Feadog and Sweetone D are nice examples of instruments that are well tuned.
It is perhaps more difficult to produce a well tuned whistle than putting a man on the moon?!
Some musical instruments are better constructed than others.
It is the duty of musicians to play in tune at all times, if humanly possible.
End of rant.
Look at it this way…the first spaceship came just decades after the first airplane.
By contrast, makers of simple system instruments have been working with the different compromises and trade-offs of various tuning approaches for hundreds of years.
–James
Edited to add: the Chief has it right. Good musicians don’t play in tune so much because of their instruments as in spite of them.
Good musicians don’t play in tune so much because of their instruments as in spite of them.
Interesting point, as I’ve just got the first whistles I’ve played in this lifetime; a Howard Lo-D and Faedog Hi-D. On both of them I immediately find I can change the notes not only with my fingering but also with breath. From Day One that says a lot, don’t you think..?
I don’t think this is physically possible. There is a ratio of good to bad
products in every factory, it’s called yield, and it will never be 100%
There will always be minute variations on the line. And Clarke can’t
afford to have every whistle hand tested for tuning and still charge
<$20 for a whistle.
Also, due to instrument physics, it is really tough to get both the upper
and lower octaves exactly the same without resorting to keys, as is
done on Clarinets and boehm flutes. In fact, man has created in-tune
instruments, they’re called the clarinet and boehm flute. If you want a
whistle, you have to blow things into tune sometimes. If you want keys
that assure in-tunedness, you have to move up to a different
instrument entirely.
I should know, I’ve played different models of them since I was 11.
In the first octave, the low end tends to be slightly flat, and the C-sharp is notoriously sharp as well as having a slightly different timbre than the notes around it.
In the second octave, F-sharp tends to have a slightly veiled quality, and tends a bit flat. Ditto on the 3rd octave F-sharp.
In the third octave, high E is a horrible note and tends to be sharp. Some flutes “correct” this with a split-E, but then some third-octave trills and alternate fingerings don’t work.
The entire third octave tends to be sharp.
There are different “scales” in use on Boehm-system flutes that address these issues in different ways, but even $8000 flutes do not automagically play themselves in tune. It’s up to the musician to do that.
Pianos and other equally-tempered instruments are deliberately out of tune, equally out of tune in all keys, allowing them to play with a certain baseline level of acceptability in all keys.
Putting a man on the moon was hardly a perfect exercise either. Dozens of things go wrong on every space flight (that’s why they have backups for everything). On the first Lunar landing, the LEM almost ran out of fuel before they put it on the ground. Space flight, like every other human endeavor, requires constant adjustment to keep things in tune - hmm, sounds like playing the whistle!
I thought the paper layer technology was really amazing.
I have never played a wind instrument before, just the piano and guitar, and the idea that every note can be in or out of tune depending on so many things is a difficult one for me. I am learning to trust my ear a bit more—probably for no good reason—and it seems that one can get used to this concept. But if you come just from the piano, it really is a new idea.
I have never played a wind instrument before, just the piano and guitar, and the idea that every note can be in or out of tune depending on so many things is a difficult one for me. I am learning to trust my ear a bit more—probably for no good reason—and it seems that one can get used to this concept. But if you come just from the piano, it really is a new idea.
The subject of tuning instruments is vast and deep.
This shows the complexity of just trying to get a scale that is in tune with itself. Actually tuning the wind instrument to the scale adds a whole new level of complexity.
Thank you! I’ve been looking for something that would help me out on this. I just need to get the courage to read it. I think if I just do one paragraph a day, it should be okay. Some of the ideas I have been exposed to before so it is just a matter of getting my brain to exert itself a bit.
Something tells me you’ve read this one: Pythagorean Tuning and Medieval Polyphony
The article says that anyone who really wants to understand it all should read this book. I’m just going with the article, thanks.
Something tells me you’ve read this one:
Pythagorean Tuning and Medieval Polyphony […]
The article says that anyone who really wants to understand it all should read this book. I’m just going with the article, thanks. lol
I wish I had…if nothing else, just for the bragging rights!
In truth, I am no expert on tuning, and I would by no means say I really understand much of it at all.
Most of what I do understand came from spending some time with a wonderfully smart piano player who had a keyboard that could be programmed with different tempers.
He explained it to me and demonstrated as he went. It’s a lot easier to grasp a bit of this when someone is actually letting you hear the difference.
If Gibson or Martin can put the bands right every time on a guitar, it shouldn´t be that difficult for a whistle manufacturer to drill the holes in the right place!
But you are quite right that all whistle has some problems with intonation. The second octave is almost always a little flat (15 cents or so) if it has a straight bore. Conical whistles, as the Sweetone, are better in this respect.
And if Feadog can make it right, so could everyone else.
Good intonation is the most important aspect in an instrument. I´ve tried many whistles and I´m quite frankly fed up whit all the crap-whistles on the market that´s not in tune.
Well look at the darn price on a Martin guitar! You’re paying for something there. Even the cheapest Martin guitar is handled by individuals many times throughout the process of making it. There are expensive whistles. I have one that is mid-range in price and I think it is quite well in tune. I don’t know what Feadog does, and if they are great, cheap whistles all I can say is buy those. When something is cheap you should be surprised if it is any good.
If I remember right from physics class (and someone please correct me if I don’t), the waves in an air column are a much more complex system than yer old standing wave (guitar string). I can’t remember much more without pulling out a book…
But I definitely remember a simple formula that related frequency to the length between nodes and the diameter of the string.
Sorry Steve, The lazer rapid prototyper in its current form is flawed for musical instruments. As wonderful as it is (i’m impressed) it still has the flaw of rational numbers - it will produce singularities and alias errors - in other words the labium ramp will be stepped to some degree and pixelation will occur in the tone holes - these things seem to make a big difference in whistles - I suspect that the lazer method will have to get into sub-micron resolutions before it will work for us.
Also, much as I love Martin guitars - they are just as flawed as any other evenly divided scale - and if the strings are streatched-in incorrectly or there’s any rust or grease on them they will be as much as 30 cents out of tune at the octave - just the same as a cheapie. Even moreso on jumbo-fretted Martins - the more you press the sharper it gets!
I also had pause to look at the story of a certain John Harrison who develped the navigation clock - he also wrote a book arguing that integer intervals were incorrect in describing harmonics and the harmonic scale - in other words Pythagorus may have got it wrong!
So as always the key to correct tuning is shaped a bit like the letter G and stuck on the side of your head!
Of course, there’s something shaped like the number one that can help a lot if it’s well made - A decent whistle!!
Which makes me wonder: are you folks really so sensitive that you can tell about the out-of-tune-ness of all the whistles you mention, just by listening? (Life must be hard if every time you hear something you’re acutely aware of any imperfections in it’s pitch.)
