I head your samples of music. Do not quit. Enjoy playing and what you think needs improving will happen.
I’ve been thinking about this thread for a day or two now…I can’t get out of my head that you’ve only been playing for 8 months. As a matter of fact, I don’t know if I can believe it (literally), unless that’s not you playing the whistle. If it is…you should not be asking the questions here, rather you should be dispensing advise. If that is you playing the whistle on those recordings that you’ve posted here and if you are serious about your questions/concerns that you posted here, then I can’t offer you any advise beside keep practicing. Whatever you’re trying to do, you’ll proably accomplish it by next week.
Well, I see you have put me in my place.
Forgive me. I didn’t intend to be patronizing.
It didn’t really seem he was having a lot of fun to me. A young person who had been playing only 8 months, yet was considering quitting, thinking he would never be good enough? Who is actually going to let strangers on the internet make the decision about continuing???
Barring the possibility that it was a self-effacing attempt to get kudos, it sure looked depressing and off-focus to me. In what universe is wanting to quit because you’re not already perfect “a normal, healthy impulse to play as well as possible”?
I’ll just hobble off to the Pub with my walker and leave you young whippersnappers the run of the forum. It’s time for my prune juice and Metamucil cocktail, and if I can stay awake long enough, I might wheeze out a tune or two on my flute.
Although I don’t know why I continue to bother, as The Great One has indicated it’s a hopeless prospect at my advanced and decrepit age. Wallowing in complacency as I am.
Lambchop, I found your comment about the problem of focusing on the goal rather than on the getting there to be quite apt in my case even though I’m 55. It can lead to paralysis because the goal is so far off and if being there is the main thing keeping you at it, some of us, at least, will be overwhelmed by dissappointment and difficulty. Balancing striving for perfection with taking pride in small steps is really hard and the enjoyment of trying to make music can dissappear. Then you have to stop and figure out just what is going wrong.
Man, how I long for the “complacency of middle age”. All those years of living have not smoothed me out or soothed me down a whit. And I wouldn’t mind if they had, believe me. 
Your doing very well Vincent, relax.
As folks have said the only way to learn play fast ornamentation is to play it accurately and slowly lots and lots.
My main instrument is the GHB and we have to learn a lot of very fast ornamentation patterns, I practice them on their own from every note to every other note. This might seem like over kill but it works.
The more you practice the better you will get; the secret is too enjoy your practice and never treat it as a chore.
Good luck
John S
StevieJ: Yes, I know how important that ‘swing’ is… probably the most important thing when playing jigs. Strangely, with some tunes, it seems to go better than with others… yesterday for instance I listened to a recording of a real virtuoso (17 years old, playing whistle for only a year (and fiddle for two), and already composing his own lovely tunes & playing them masterfully: http://fiddlinviolinin.endofinternet.net/ ) and I once again noticed how far a way I still have to go to even get that ‘swing’ right. I’ve been practicing all morning both on the rolls and that rhythm, at a slow speed… I think I’ll spend more time working on those things instead of learning new tunes from now on.
Dwinterfield: It is… and I’m delighted to say that this weekend, I might play for dancers for the first time (just for fun) at a folk festival, and I’ll probably learn the basics of the steps for a jig (sean nos) ! Looking very much forward to it, hope it will improve my playing too…
Fluti: If I come across the book in the library or a music store I’ll certainly look into it, thanks for the tip.
Peeplj: First, thanks for the compliments ;p However it might help me if you could pinpoint exactly what you like about which recorded tune, or say exactly what needs improving (often I’ll realise that myself though, and am working on it already).
Azalin: Yep, I’m definately playing 3 or more hours a day… in fact, I just keep my whistle with me all the time, and when I’m not listening to the music and not actively doing something (like posting here 
) I’m probably playing And what you say about a tune getting ‘hardcoded’ in your brain… there was this one tune, Connaughtman’s rambles, with which that already was the case… I’d listened to it numerous times on Steve’s page, and on a downloaded old recording from Kevin Burke (homespun violin lessens or something), and of course other recordings… and when I was just playing a bit in the garden, I managed to find the notes and ornaments on the whistle just like that o.O That felt really great ! Unfortunately it hasn’t really happened with another tune yet (except for very easy polkas and stuff perhaps).
Eldarion: thanks, the radio programs are surely very interesting. Listening to The Bloom of Youth, however, makes me realise how hopeless I am though ^^
Pete D: Oh please, you are so exaggerating :x Really, I s*ck, compared to a lot of others… But it’s nice to read that some people actually do like what they hear already ^.^
Well, that’s a personal thingy… I won’t go into detail, but I easily get discouraged when I find out that I’ll never be as good as I hope to be… I’ve had many hobbies, I often turned out to be quite adapt at them in the beginning, but almost always, due to physical defects or just a lack of talent I quickly found out it would be impossible to get actually good, not just moderate. I am a person that wants to achieve something. Every day we are confronted with things accomplished by people who are among the best at what they do. Be it programmers, drawers, musicians, politicians, businessmen, photographers, craftsman, sportsmen, you name it. People who achieve things in their life. Always am I looking for such a thing, something to render my life useful, to be remembered, to make a difference. And yes, now I’m hoping that I can accomplish this through making music… that is why I need certainty that I can actually become good. Of course not the best, but at least, among the top, of a level that I am satisfied with myself.
Damn, this is getting way too philosophical, nvm that bllsht ;x
Thanks again for the replies everyone,
Vincent
I think that this is not something that’s uniquely wrong with you (or me) – I read somewhere (here? some other music page?) that the ring finger in particular shares tendons or something with other fingers, so it has a hard time being independently coordinated the way one might expect it to. If anyone knows more about this I’d like to hear it… Anyway, both my ring fingers are “slow learners” for sure.
This is so true. It happened to me in a big way last year, and I put down my whistles for a number of months – the frustration just overwhelmed the satisfaction for me.
I find this a little worrisome, since it seems that you might just be getting discouraged when your learning process reaches a natural plateau – plateaus in the learning curve are a well known phenomenon in almost every field of endeavor, not an indication that there’s a defect or lack of talent on your part. If you keep on plugging along through them, they’re usually (eventually, sigh) followed by movement to a new level of ability. Maybe they’re just the brain taking has reached its capacity to re-wire itself with what you’ve learned, and that has to gel before you can move ahead again.
Somewhat akin to this, my time spent non-whistling wasn’t a time of regression – I seem to have returned to it with certain issues having naturally worked themselves out, so that tunes that used to be hard for me are now much easier.
Noel
squidgirl, I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one with that problem. And I’m glad to hear that you got through it. I’m still working on it, but your example gives me some hope of getting through it too. 
On the positive side, I have been listening almost every day to a CD with a lot of old time singing on it. This was something completely new to me and I am hearing more and liking it more, even loving it more every time I listen to it. So something is happening.
I picked up a whistle for the first time about 9 months ago. For a month or two I did nothing but play(if you can call the atrocities that were produced playing) until I got frustrated with what I thought was a lack of progress. I stopped playing for quite a few months till I decided to give it another go.
I found the time off and new found patience to be a virute in learning this time around. I found I played better and enjoyed the process much more when I focused on the music more then a time line I set for myself.
In total I have been playing maybe 4 months. I learned to play my first full speed jig last week( The Blackthorn Stick) and Polka this week( Egan’s Polka) and am working on Off to California now.
I can play “beginner” ornementation. I can’t pull off a roll if my life depended on it.
I figure I’m 25 yrs old. I got a lot of time to learn and hopefully enjoy every minute of it
Well, I am sick of it. Sick, sick, sick to teeth of the bloody tin whistle, and I don’t mind telling you so. I’d stop in a heartbeat, be rid of that little squeechy misfit of an instrument, but I can’t. The only thing that keeps me going is the prospect of brow-beating hacks on the chiffboard. I love the rise I get when tell I them what they don’t understand, making it sound like it’s child’s play. And I listen to clips & snips for hours just to laugh at the “rolls.” Snort! Gets me every time. 
But, you see, for me the complacency of middle age has been replaced by the malice of old age.
Ah, finally! A healthy attitude!
Btw, I have been able to ‘isolate’ the problem pretty clearly, but it troubles me even more now…
Do the following exercie:
Hold your left and right hands in front of you, fingers pointed at each other. Now just move your middle and index finger up and down as fast as possible with both hands. See if you can move them as fast ;x
With me it’s terrible :s I’m guessing I can move my right hand fingers about 3 times as fast and much more ‘in rhythm’ than with the left hand :s When moving middle and ring finger though, both hands are as ‘sloppy’. Ever since I discovered this I’m frequently just exercising the left hands’s fingers by quickly tapping them (in the air or on a table or my whistle)… hope it will help
Oh, and Bloomfield, I don’t quite understand what you’re trying to say… are my attempts at rolls laughable ?
The level of English used on this forum is by far the highest I’ve seen, I have to switch back and forth between a dictionary all the time
Oh (another edit) and my biggest problem seems to be the short A roll, at least I think that’s the name… to illustrate I could upload the A part of the congress reel, the way my teacher plays it :x
Edit3: here it is… http://users.pandora.be/BE_BlackDeath/music/shortAroll.mp3
First part played slowly. If I go any faster than that, it starts to sound crappy
But thanks for the tip Bloomfield, tried it a couple of times and idd, practicing that movement seems to target the problem area
It can be done.
This helped me: Play an A and tap with your ringfinger. Do that until you learn to just throw the finger down so quickly that all you hear is a blip.
Slow down the movement extremely and exaggerate it. At super-slow & exaggerated pace get it exactly rhythmically right (use StevieJ’s Dahblablah method for rolls, that is: make them even). Use a metronome if you like and if it helps you. You’ll feel it when it clicks into place.
Consistency was the key for me: 10 min every day of bloody rolls, for a year.
Well someone has to tell you. The second part of your clip already sounds crappy, really crappy. Slow down, you’re not ready to play anywhere near that fast without causing us all to twitch and groan with dismay.
You’re right steve, I know it’s very crappy… after a bit of practice I think I am improving a bit already, but I guess I just need to be more patient and give it time, right 
(read down for more)
I was just having a bit of fun, never mind.
By the way Blackdeath, the people who helped me most to learn how to play were people who told me I was playing like crap There’s only a few people who will dare tell you the truth, but I think you should ask for it and be able to handle criticism in a positive manner. Steve in a very big pain in the arse, but I found out he’s so right about it.
So my advice is that if you really want to improve in the right direction (when it comes down to well played irish trad music) you should ask for real advices in private messages, as you’ll seldom get upfront criticism in a public thread.
Well I don’t want to bug you with my ‘noobism’ I’m totally not worth spending time on
I could probably send dozens of soundfiles asking ‘how about this’, ‘is there any improvement already’ etc… but I guess I’ll have to read the first reply again… I’ll simply need to have patience =)
But I totally agree with you, I need criticism ! That’s the reason I posted here in the first place. I’m not really getting much negative criticism from my teacher, except for a few ‘obvious’ things… whilst on this forum, where I’m just a anonymous stranger, it’s easier to tell me that I play like crap than telling it to my face, which is understandable, and indeed, that’s what I need to know what I’m doing wrong and where I need to improve.
But, if any good whistle player (been playing in sessions for a long time, teacher, semi-professional player, or just good amateur) would like to give me ‘private lessons’ I’d be more than happy if I could add you to MSN for instance, and send you some more soundfiles so you can give me more advice But I surely don’t expect that from anyone… as you won’t gain anything out of it, of course (except for the satisfaction of knowing that you’re helping someone who’s very grateful for it and might one day become a good musician cuz of your help ? ^^ )
My rolls suck so I’m going to try this. Overall, from another noobie, thanks for the thread. I found it inspiring. I can’t wait until I finally get it right.