John Hoban put on a workshop here a few weeks ago. He gave his answer to this question…
(paraphrased, i hope i convey his meaning)
It’s not how many tunes you know,
Or how fast you can play…
You can call yourself a musician when, playing with others, you can forget what you’re doing and really listen to the others in the group.
Food for thought, and fodder for comment…
Cheers,
jb
I would say you never call yourself a musician. Other people will do that.
(or not as the case may be)
Fair enough.
Maybe it should be…
You may consider yourself…
Maybe it is something you shouldn’t worry about. There are old people coming to the session I play on the sundaynights that come to dance and not consider themselves ‘musicianers’. Still every now and again one pulls a whistle out of the pocket or a concertina from the boot of the car and plays a fe w tunes, maybe not technically brilliant but with more musical insight than many who pass through the session during the season.
It’s all in the heart, not in the number of tunes or the number of rolls you can squeeze in. It’s in the bounce, the turn of the phrase and in the feeling it conveys. You’ll know it when you hear it but you can quantify it.
Here’s a rather different take on the status of musician. It’s a quote from “Recollections of a Donegal Man” by traditional singer Packie Manus Byrne. He is talking about John Doherty, the famous travelling fiddler who died in 1972 (I think), and his brothers, all great fiddle players.
Now the Dohertys I just mentioned: as far as music was concerned, they were reckoned to be the tops. But they weren't just "musicians". John Doherty used to get grossly offended if anyone called him a "musician". They were fiddle experts, and that was a higher class altogether.
But as far as considering myself a musician goes, I’m with Peter - if someone else confers the title on me, I’d be happy. The thing is, no matter what level you’re at, you will always meet people whose musical understanding and skill will amaze you.
Even if you think you’re among the best in your little patch, someone someday will force you to revise your opinion of yourself. When I meet such gifted people I say to myself, now there’s a musician…
But what your workshop leader said about being able to listen, and forget yourself and your own performance, is very important, whether or not it confers entry to the inner circle of those called musicians.
[ This Message was edited by: StevieJ on 2001-11-28 09:09 ]
As a rock climber, I am alternately annoyed and amused when I hear comments like “He’s a great guy–he leads 5.12.” As if there’s a connection between the two. I couldn’t climb a 5.12 if my life depended on it–I just love the rock. Can I consider myself a climber?
You guys are right. Being a musician…whatever it is, it isn’t just about the skills. I know some people who are great technicians, but they seem to have missed what the music is saying. Does that mean they aren’t musicians? I don’t know. I wouldn’t be satisfied with that sort of experience. Better the person who misses a note now and then but feels it.
Music, like most important things, doesn’t reside primarily in the fingers, or the intellect, or on the printed page. To really be music, it has to get into your heart.
And being a “musician” isn’t a title you can aspire to, any more than being a “climber.” It isn’t a trophy to be earned; it’s a personality trait to be cultivated.
Whatever. 
Just have fun, enjoy it, and let it grab your heart. That’s what it’s all about.
Tom
I came a cross a nice one recently: an old and lovely lady who plays the concertina (and is a wonderful musical singer), Kitty Hayes from Shanaway west, Miltown Malbay with whom I play a lovely duet (if I may say so)(by the way she is the widow of the great fluteplayer Josie Hayes to whom Kevin Crawford’s latest CD was dedicated), anyway speaking of someone Kitty said: ‘he was not a musician, he was a singer’
Now wasn’t that a sentence packed with information!
(ofcourse some Clare people refer to an instrumentalist as a musician, but as a quote it sounds great allthough the singers won’t agree with it)
[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2001-11-28 10:04 ]
I came across a quote that I like. I have no idea who said it and I may be paraphrasing it here, too:
“Anyone who makes any kind of noise is a musician. If you enjoy the noise that you make, then you are a good musician. If other people enjoy the noise that you make, then you are a great musician.”
Neil Brock
Someone I was talking to once distinguished
between musical people and musicians.
You’re a musician just in case you have sufficient technical proficiency, you have the craft of music. Roughly a musician can take the tune up a key in the middle of
the performance, along with the rest
of the band, and so on. A musician
is to music as a physician is to
healing.
Musical people are people who have a deep feeling and love for music, who love to play or sing, who have a tendency to pick
up any instrument around and play it.
Musical people may or may not be musicians.
Some musical people have the technical
chops, many (like myself) don’t. Some
musicians have a deep feeling and love
for music, some have lost the
love of music and are just cranking it
out to earn a living. Musical people
who are not musicians may play more
beautifully than musicians. The best
thing is to be a musical person who
is a musician, I think.
Of course, this was said to me
by a man who was trying to sell me
an expensive guitar. On the other hand,
I bought it.
On 2001-11-28 10:16, nbrock wrote:
I came across a quote that I like. I have no idea who said it and I may be paraphrasing it here, too:“Anyone who makes any kind of noise is a musician. If you enjoy the noise that you make, then you are a good musician. If other people enjoy the noise that you make, then you are a great musician.” >
You beat me to the punch here. I was going to say something along those lines: Bascially, I’m a musician because I play music. Whether or not I’m a good one, I’ll leave to other people to decide.
I consider myself a musician, if not a professional-level one. The need to become one arose, of course, out of being a musical person. I’ve actually been called a musician (even a “natural musician”) and singer by others, which is a thrill, though I’m realistic enough to know that technical-wise, I’ve just scratched the surface on most of what I play/sing. But what fun I will have getting wherever it is I’ll get to on the journey towards musicianship! Besides, I can’t imagine it getting any better than singing for my almost-5-year-old son and occasionally at church and making music with my friends.
Sometimes I’m a musician, and sometimes I’m just someone trying to play an instrument; perhaps more often the later than the former.
For me, you’re a musician if, music is something you need to express yourself fully. Music is something you have to participate in. It’s just an integral part of you. It expresses the emotions within that fail to flow through any other outlet. It is the power behind expressing the themes, values, and principles of your life. The musician hears tunes with his inner ear when feelings arise from his heart, just as an author or poet hears words, or as a painter might envision color, texture and line.
As a musician, its about the music. There are all types of musicians. Professional musicians get to do it for a living, amatuer musicians have to keep a day job, and reserve thier off hours for their passion. For folk musicians its a way to connect with common humanity, for traditional musicians it a way to connect with history. When a bunch of folks get togeather and they all get to that point where they’re just dwelling in the music as if it were some alternate reality one could be tranported into … thats the heart of a session, the part that transcends. The music junky that can’t go without that transcendental fix on a regular basis, is a session musician.
For me I’m a musician, when I’m not just playing, I’m actually a part of the music. When where my fingers are and what they’re doing is not important, they’re just part of the music, the music just flows through them.
For me, the true musician plays what he or she feels. They reach inside stirring their own passions and express them through tune or song. The shallow musician or the player thats falling short of being a true musician, expresses the feelings of others without connecting to them, without letting those feeling take root in his or her own heart.
When a two year old giggles with glee watching a ball bounce down stairs, the musician thinks “I’ve got to learn to play rolls that way, so I can put that in the music”. For the musician, studing music, learning new skills, techniques, theories is about expanding the vocabulary, so he or she can better express themselves and find better ways to connect to the music.
The part in me that’s a musician, is mumbling in the backround “thats not what being a musician is about. Just play them …”.
If as a musician you can’t live with out it, then its just best if you …
I was hoping you’d chime in on this one, Lee Marsh. I always enjoy your soulful posts and your reminder to enjoy our music. Thanks for so eloquently expressing the feelings of those of us who can’t NOT do music.
You’re a musician when you can play around people without getting the tar beaten out of you for being irritating. IMHO anyway…
Good one, TS. 
Some years ago I sat in the audience awaiting the arrival on stage of Steve Howe, celebrated guitarist of 70’s Brit. Rock band, ‘Yes’, fame. The guy next to me related, with not inconsiderable pride, that he was also a guitarist, and had also played with his band at the very same (quite small) venue - mainly at dances for christmas parties.
Steve Howe came on and played for about an hour in the first half of his show - mainly acoustic guitar, but in various styles, classical, folk, jazz, rock - and in a way that I can only described as ‘four-handed’ (that is to imply that it sounded like there was often more than one person playing at the same time on the one guitar).
As he was bringing the first half to a close, Steve offered some technical information on his playing - and to set it up asked: ‘are there any guitarists in the audience?’ I turned to the guy next to me, who was now looking very glum and not the least bit proud.
‘I used to be a guitarist’, he mumbled ‘I used to be!’
Steve
[ This Message was edited by: StevePower on 2001-11-29 11:15 ]
I think that anyone who plays or sings anything is a musician. Also, any musician can always improve and should always be trying for perfection, so I don’t think anyone can judge how ‘good’ a musician a person is. What I think is importance in a musician is the ability to make the ‘audience’ feel that listening to the music is more important than watching it being played, but others have different priorities.
This is a very interesting thread to me, so thanks everyone for posting their thoughts.
Jo.
Music is a human endeavor. One can regard it as a gift, a tool, a drudgery, a transcendental experience… I was obliged to take piano lessons as a youngster and didn’t care for it. I carefully watched the clock to see when I could run outside. Later, I became intrigued with playing an instrument and bought a harmonica. That was fun. Now, I’m addicted to sitting alone with the door closed, metronome clicking, whistling away. I also enjoy hanging out with my house session buddies.
(Now the dark side…) People compose and record/perform music to make money and/or gain fame. I imagine some of them enjoy the performing, I doubt they all do. And the idea of composing to a marketable formula seems a corruption of a gift to me. I’m not saying any of that is evil; more, I think of it as pitiable. I met a professional cartoonist once who told me it was fun until he started doing it for a living, now it’s just a pressured job like any other. I took his experience as a caution.
So, this goes back to what constitutes a musician. It’s a vague and subjective term, something different to each of us. It may be someone you admire, envy, loathe, or be indifferent to. As it applies to yourself, it may be an aspiration, a gift, a curse, an unrealized potential. My 13yr old daughter has great musical potential but is not concerned about it. Maybe later. For myself, I’m entranced by the time I get to spend pounding out tunes, trying to perfect my delivery, never being satisfied. If I never performed in front of another person, it would not be a great concern. I play for myself. It’s a selfish indulgence- (my motivation for playing).
(Jeroen, what am I talking about here???)
Tony
I found this at http://www.m-w.com and posted it on anoter thread. I figured I would throw it in here for good measure since I was in here a few times to see what people were saying Works for me
One entry found for musician.
Main Entry: mu·si·cian
Pronunciation: myu-'zi-sh&n
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
: a composer, conductor, or performer of music; especially : INSTRUMENTALIST
To put another spin on what SteveJ said about thinking you’re the best in your patch yet always being able to find someone better… even if you’re the worst player in your patch, to me, you are trying to play music, and that is something to be proud of. How many adults do you know who say they “can’t”, “have no talent”, etc that really just won’t try. If you are trying, then you are a musician in my world. (How do you make those cute smilies???)