Yet another reed based topic that I like to "technical

Uilleann Pipes
1

Hi fellow pipers,
I have gone through many reeds in my attempts to learn about reed adjustments through trial and error (lots of errors), but have learned a lot this way.

I thought I’d set up this discussion topic for pipers to place any general tips that they may have about reed making and adjusting that uilleann pipers might benefit from. I am on a never ending quest to make the “PERFECT!” reed and have come close by scraping and trimming wide (14mm) reed blanks made by an experienced reedmaker. I have bought 1kg of 24mm diameter cane form a plantation in Australia and am going to start making my own blanks using the staples that I kept from the ruined reeds.

So onto some tips- My best reed (before the allure of my quest forced my stanley knife wielding hand to go too far) was a hard cane 14mm wide one. What I found to produce an excellent result was:

  1. a 23mm long, ‘U’ shaped scrape with a heavy scrape at the base of the U. (The scrape stopped 3mm short of the binding).

  2. closing the elevation of the lips to an extremely small opening using a 3mm bridle placed immediately above the binding.

  3. a 50mm staple inserted only 15mm into the cane slip (this is how the blank came from Ian).

This produced a quiet and very responsive reed that was in pitch with the tunes on Liam O’Flynn’s album ‘The Given Note’ (a tad sharper than 440). It only required a low air pressure to play and it didn’t take much more pressure to jump to the second octave. The only problem with it was an ever so slightly flat back D (this small flaw was what made me go too far and trim the reed shorter).

Well that’s enough from me. This forum is for the posting of discussions- not novels! Anyone got any other ideas that they have found works well for them? (I’d be particularly interested in designs that work well in a Mackenzie or Rowsone chanter)

2

Why would a Liam O’Flynn record play sharp of A=440? Sounds like your Victrola needs its spring replaced.

Leaving reeds alone for a while will let them make up their mind whether they’re going to play or not. If you trim excessively you may need to lengthen the scrape to get the proper pitch. The pitch of a reed isin’t always a reliable indicator of whether it will give a certain pitch in the chanter, it is best to insert the reed further into the chanter before trimming, unless the back D is far too sensitive, even when the reed is playing more stiff.

15mm is much shorther than usual for inserting the staple. 25.4mm=1 inch is all I’ve ever used, with 1 inch tails as well, 4 inch slip=100 mm, basically. How long is this head, 35mm or something? Or are the tails extra short, ala Britton? 20mm or something? If you insert the staple a given length and want to gouge the tails out to fit the staple (to prevent cracking etc.) you need to gouge a little bit past the length you’re shooting for: 1 1/8" to insert the staple 1". I use a small detail gouge for this instead of the big reed gouge.

Try machine winding if you haven’t, I find it much easier and more accurate to do than by hand. Dave Hegarty’s book has lots of advice on machine winders, including how to build your own. I bought an old #77A Miller Falls hand drill, removed the handle, and mounted it in a small rectangular block the width of the diameter of my usual sanding cylinder, with a hole for the handle’s shaft and a couple of guide posts to keep the drill in one spot. I originally thought I might be able to simply mount the drill in the vice, but its sides aren’t parallel so this is impractical.
Here is a picture of this drill:





http://www.public.coe.edu/~rroeder/mf.htm is a page dedicated to Miller Falls tools. Used dealers will have their stuff, I bought two online, on for myself and one for Brad Angus, who swears by his. Brad also uses thin black string (must be new or it will snap), starts at the bottom of the tails, and goes over the tails twice with the wrapping. After wrapping squeeze the wrapping with the leather the black wax is attached to, while spinning the reed, to force the black wax into the cracks between the string, then check the reed for straightness. If the sides have slipped or the head is crooked, retie. If straight, apply some beeswax and squeeze with the leather again. This will staunch the reed quite thoroughly, and it looks good, too. Mandrels should be made of hard metal, such as drill bits. Drill rod will bend as you tie, unless it has been greatly hardened, or is of great thickness. I get drill bits from used hardware stores.

3

Kevin,
I am aware of the norms of reed design. I have done lots of research and seen what reed makers find to work. I’ve spotted some common measurements and normal dimentions of a reed including the 25mm insersion of the staple that you use. I will be trying all of these norms when I make some blanks of my own. I decided to deviate from these norms when the playing characteristics of the reed were telling me to shorten it or scrape it more. (I unfortunately have not yet mastered when to make a compromise with the reed and stop fiddling with it). All notes of the reed in question (especially the hard D) were telling me to lower the bridle and pull the reed out of its seat more, but this produced a flat back D and that’s why I trimmed it shorter.

I thought I would post the design in this forum as I found that the reed played very well and might be a useful thing for other reed makers to try (especially those with a Mackenzie chanter that plays too loudly for their liking) . I do appreciate however, the advice you posted in response to my posting. I have heard lots of reed makers say to make adjustments gradually and to leave the reed to settle. I tend to be impatient and don’t play-in the reed for long enough before fiddling with it. I have a good ear for pitch so I am easily frustrated by a reed that has notes out of pitch with the others. I will have to learn a bit more patience with my reed alterations.

To answer your question (“How long is this head, 35mm or something? Or are the tails extra short, ala Britton? 20mm or something?”), The tails were 25mm (straight taper, boat shape slip). The staple only travelled 15mm into the tail, but meant that the taper of the tails was a continuation of the splayed out staple (splayed from the flattening of the tube). The reed meaured only 29mm from lips to the top of the staple which was 50mm in length (overall reed length=79mm). I haven’t yet asked Ian why he opts for a short insersion of the staple, but I am sure it is because it works well for his chanters. He does tend to make his reeds quite stiff and they play at their best with a large elevation, so maybe the short insersion is nescesarry for his design (I don’t know :confused:) . I’ve seen some postings by Tony about phone conversations he has had with Ian about reed making so maybe he can shed some light on this subject.

In terms of my statement about Liam O’Flynn’s chanter playing above 440, I have found that many pipers concert D chanters are about 10% of a semi-tone sharp of 440 (I’d say about 446 or so). Examples of this sharpness are found on Paddy Keenan’s albums, Eric Bogle’s playing for the ‘Braveheart’ soundtrack, Davy Spillane’s albums- the list goes on. When I’ve played along with these recordings with a reed that matches the pitch and then played over backings I’ve recorded on my keyboard, I have found that I’ve had to increase the pitch of the keyboard above 440 to match the chanter. I’m not trying to start an argument over it- I’ve just found that to be the case for the comfort of my ear for pitch.

Anyway- I am starting another novel with this posting so I will stop here.

Thanks again Kevin for your response to my first ever posting in the uilleann pipe forum. Feel free to post more technical reed making tips.
Goldy.

p.s. I love the movie character you chose to go with your postings. I hope you’re not as meanas him though, and don’t drive anyone to shoot themselves as a result.

4

Goldy,
Welcome to the C&F board.

My preference is to buy reeds and not to make them.

I’ve tried several different makers reeds in my Simack chanters as short term experiments. All have given acceptable performance. Each have their own quirks (both good or bad) however, I get best overall results (tuning, ease of play and sound) from Ian’s reeds.

5

To quote an old reed maker, “there are no good reeds, we just learn to play the bad ones”. By extension, you will never find the “perfect” reed, but some will definately be better than others. It is easy enough to improve a reed out of existance, so learning when to stop scraping and chopping and let well enough alone is a big step in the process of learning reed-making. Everyone starts with high expectations, but the reeds themselves will teach you their own limitations, if you pay close enough attention.

Ted

6

Hello Goldy and welcome to C&F,

Are you sure your machine that plays your disc’s ain’t faulty? Iv’e played
a long to Davy Spillane’s Disc’s and Liam O’Flynn’s ‘the fine art of Piping’
and there cock on in pitch at 440 and my Korg GT-12 tuner also agree’s
with my ear, may I ask who’s chanter you play on? to make good reeds
you need to practice a lot, and make a lot, before you become a good
maker, practice makes perfect, all the best. :sunglasses:

7

Just to throw oil on the fire here, it may have something to do with your tuner if you are relying on batteries, instead of the correct 9V converter for your unit. I have noticed significant differences between my Qwik Tune on batteries versus my Seiko ST-909 on batteries versus the ST-909 on a converter, all giving different measurements to the same source (my tenor drone) within the space of a couple of minutes. Perhaps this is the source of the errant measurement (?)

djm