These two characteristics were mentioned in another thread, and I pointed out that they have nothing to do with whistle or whistler, but are an effect of the sound system.
I just wondered, what would you have to build into our humble instrument in order to get either sound JUST from the whistle? Is there something that can be put on a whistle to give it a bit of reverb? an extended chamber like the way Copeland built up the window?
Curious Cat…
This isn’t a direct answer to your question, but I’ve thought about how one would create a similar sweetening effect naturally.
I think the answer to that is, play in an accoustically lively space, where there are large, accoustically reflective surfaces and few sound absorbing materials (no carpets, drapes, etc.). What comes to mind, of course, is a cathedral.
I believe it’s appropriate to consider the playing environment to be an extension of the whistle’s voicing, considering how much different a whistle can sound in a dead vs. accoustically rich space. I suppose the logical thing to do is package each whistle with an instant, inflatable cathedral to provide the best possible sound.
“Excuse me for just a minute while I finish setting up here …”
POP!!! WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSHHHH!!! Click. Click. Click. Click.
“There we are. OK, this first tune is called … .”
Best wishes,
Jerry
To get either, I think you’d have to have a large resonance chamber of some kind.
It would be an interesting design challenge, but I fear the instrument produced probably wouldn’t wind up looking much like a whistle. Also holding it could be a problem.
–James
Why do we want reverb and echo?
Reverb gives tons more overtones to a basic sound. A ‘pure’ tone can be seen as one simple sine wave. It is BORING to the point of annoying. Its the sound you get when you make a computer sound a note, or strike a tuning fork.
Reverb adds in other sounds that makes the basic note far more interesting. Harmonics, hints of octaves, it adds all those different qualities that give a fuller auditory experience.
Echo gives that haunting feeling to a note. Its just that…the echo after a sound that, in the previous cathedral example, happens when sound waves bounce off hard, somewhat distant objects and come to the listener a little bit later.
I’m sure there are technical explanations, but this is as close as I can come.
Tyg
That was a good enough answer—I wouldn’t understand technical stuff. I think I have heard those effects on clips of things. I’m not sure I like either one, but I can see why others might. Although it is true, as Jerry pointed out, that where you play an instrument makes a big difference and that involves these very effects. So maybe I just don’t like too much of it.
I wouldn’t want either reverb or echo in my whistles. Rather I want what I do get from some of my Copelands - resonance. This “enrichment or intensification of musical tone by supplemental vibration induced sympathetically or mechanically” I believe is achieved somehow in Michael’s crafting of the instrument - including conical shape, tone hole sizes and relationships, fipple architecture, raised windway, blade curvature, etc. and how they all fall somehow together. Thus the art and the inconsistency.
See, there really can be something special about a Copeland. I’m also wondering if cavefish really and simply meant resonance rather than reverb and echo.
Philo
When we were building the new kitchen I would go inside the structure, or better yet, down in the new basement, and play for HOURS it sounded so good. Then one day they finally got around to insulating it and it sounded like I was playing inside a marshmallow. Dead dead dead. Blah.
Happily, as soon as the kitchy got its tile and granite it got ‘the sound’ back, and then some. Major pleasure to play in!
There are 2 methods I use to get more reverb and echo from my whistles.
Throw out all of the furniture in my house. If that isnt feasible, I buy 40 acres of pristine forest, clear a few acres, and put up a house with no furniture in it.
Thankfully I require R and E for only a few tunes.
Over the years I have been involved in electronic music…still got an incredible keyboard with these and many other effects on…BUT…I took up the whistle because I felt the need to get back more to the roots of music…the more primitive sounds…DIY music…you get out what you put in…if you can’t get the music you want by simply playing the instrument than take up something else is my suggestion…the skills of a good whistler (and I am not yet one) speask for themselves…as does the music. If, however one must have these embelishments then I’m sure there are electronic gizmos one can put througha mic to produce them .
I’m feeling a bit guilty about what I just said…Why? because I produce backinghs for my jigs reels etc on my ELECTRONIC keyboard …cringe…but never play other than straight whistle…in fact all my whistles are straight. Les.
Here’s a tune “straight,” and then again with a little reverb (which I just posted to another thread):
Ar thaobh na Carraige (By the Side of the Rock)
Ar thaobh na Carraige (with reverb)
Actually, I got the idea to sample them this way from Michael Copeland’s website. All of his soundclip samples have examples of both unenhanced and “wet” versions of the whistle recording.
I think it’s worth hearing the difference. A lot of recorded music does use a little reverb. I have a tweaked Shaw customer who plays praise music using a reverb unit he controls with a pedal, if I remember properly. He sent me a recording of a service he performed for. It did sound beautiful.
I seem to recall that Diana Ross and the Supremes recorded their hits in a bathroom at Motown Records because that’s where the best sound was and they didn’t have any way to create the sound they wanted electronically.
Best wishes,
Jerry
Well there is the answer. Just make a cave in a canyon around the whistle.
An accoustically good room or hall has very good natural reverb. Since the things that make for good reverb can also provide annoying reverb when things aren’t just right, and since recording engineers want pure signals to work with, recording studios try to eliminate natural reverb completely. Adding a little reverb later gives them control over the process.
For my part, I only add enough to simulate what I would have got anyway in an accoustically friendly room. All the ordinary speaker notices is a little more warmth.
My garage has that sound. Is this the reason for → garage bands?
My kitchen also sounds great, and I’d “rather” play in there, thank you.
Mary
Reverb gives tons more overtones to a basic sound… It is BORING to the point of annoying. Its the sound you get when you make a computer sound a note, or strike a tuning fork.
That’s one of the reasons classical players do vibrato. It makes the pitch sound a lot warmer, more interesting, and can make the sound “shimmer.” It also helps in tuning.
Whistles naturally have different overtones in their sound. Overtones are what make an A on a violin sound different from an A on an oboe, or flute, or a (concert) A on a clarinet, or any other instrument’s A.
I really never understood why classical vibrato was so frowned upon in traditional settings. I think it really makes the instrument sound so much better. If it is done correctly, it should improve the music and make it more interesting, without being a distraction.
I suppose everyone has their own opinion as to what sounds best.
Is it frowned upon because it isn’t part of the tradition?
In singing, using vibrato with the voice came in at some time and I know that singers of early music are supposed to not use vibrato. It is a very beautiful pure sound. But it is difficult, I have heard, for people to retrain their voices if they have studied singing opera, just as an example. It is hard to sing without vibrato because you have to be just exactly on that tone.
I really, really dislike vibrato in voice or in flute. It certainly adds more
colour to the sound, but to my ear, it does so to the point of muddying
the sound. I should be clearer. I dislike -continuous- vibrato. As an
occassional effect, it certainly can be nice. At least, in singing it can.
Speaking mostly of flute, I think the real reason that the vibrato is frowned
on in the tradition - aside from the reflexive ‘it isn’t tradition’ reason - is that
it displaces or mutes traditional effects. Vibrato is kinda like bending a note,
and kinda like making everything a muffled roll, but not really either. I don’t
think vibrato mixes particularly well with traditional ornamentation, and is
likely to displace it if used. It also is at odds with the ‘reedy’ flute tone, which
creates a different kind of sound color altogether.
Of course, I’ve never -actually- heard someone talented in traditional music
mix it with classical-type continuous-vibrato… but… just hearing it in the
mind’s ear as it were, it sounds awful to me.
PS: My favorite source of echo & reverb is a parking garage. Any parking
garage will do, generally. Since I always have a whistle in the car, I can
conveniently grab it and play a few tunes either after parking the car or
before driving away. This works best late at night when there are few cars
to interfere with the sound. Playing while walking around the garage is
especially nice because you can move through different ranges of sound
color, pausing in places that are particularly nice. 