WTT -- Anodizing, pretty colors, no more black fingers?

Whistle
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Recently, I’ve been working with aluminum, and have run into the same problem as lots - black fingers and hands from fooling with the stuff. Same when you play the whistles. Lacquer and other coatings eventually get scratched up. Waxes and oils wear off pretty quickly. What’s a whistlesmith to do??

I finally went to the Internet to find a solution, and thought, just on the off-chance, I’d try to find out just how hard it’d be to anodize the tubing I use for the barrels. Believe it or not, it’s fairly easy, and relatively cheap. It is also dead simple to color the tubing, permanently! (see the piccy on the front page of my site for an example - click WWW)

As a result of this, I am going to write up a complete booklet on the process, and offer it to anybody that wants the details, just for printing and postage costs. I’ll chime back in and let you know when it’s ready. I will detail EVERYTHING, including where to get the chemicals. You will be amazed how easy it really is! :smiley:
Cheers,
Bill Whedon

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Congratulations on getting the anodizing to operate.

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I dunno – everywhere my fingers touch my beloved O’Riordan D, the anodized black has come off. Admittedly, there was a lot of playing involved to get it that way…

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Anodizing is permenant, but it penetrates only so far. Periodic touch up in heavily used areas will be required.

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This from bicycle-lore:

Don’t forget there’s also clear anodizing. It leaves the aluminium looking like, well, metal. Just a tiny bit lighter a hue, with satin reflections. This is an extremely durable finish, and if it does happen to get scratched or stripped clean, it still looks ok because the raw metal appearing underneath looks about the same.

For a durable anodized finish, you can also apply microbead-blasting (like sanding, except it’s done with smooth round glass pellets) before anodizing. It hardens the surface like micro-forging, and gives it a permanent satin semi-matte finish. A wonderful finish, which doesn’t slip under the fingers, even when moist with sweat. It’s the choice of luxury aluminium mountain bikes, since they do take some beating… and it’s no good PR for the brand if they start looking like scrap-metal after a couple seasons.

Btw, few people notice it, but about any titanium you get is anodized, hence the slightly “warm” reflections on “raw” titanium, just because it’s become the “traditional” finish. The truely raw stuff is colourless, dull and bleak like zinc. I’ve seen it applied after microbeading, too.

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Btw, few people notice it, but about any titanium you get is anodized, hence the slighty “warm” reflections on “raw” titanium, just beacuse it’s become the “traditional” finish. The truely raw stuff is colourless, dull and bleak like zinc.

True, but it can be coloured by heating.
I have made a few Low D’s from the stuff, its hard to work and get :frowning: if it was possable to get more :party: I would make heaps

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Right on, Steven. Well, anodizing is actually kind of a plating process, whereby aluminum oxide is “plated” on the surface of the aluminum. It’s generally less than 1mil thick, and takes an SEM to actually examine the surface (looks like a honeycomb, fresh out of the vat! :astonished: )

Anyhow, even though it’s the same stuff Alox sandpaper is made from, it is still subject to wear, so yep, if you play enough, you’ll eventually wear through the surface. But it will take a LOT of playing. Renewing the anodize is relatively easy, though, since the part that hasn’t been affected is still insulated, and the plate will only “take” on the bare metal. And if the instrument gets too scratched up, it’s also possible to “strip” the anodize completely and re-do it.

That said, it is still a time- and labor-intensive process when done on a small scale, which is why whistlesmiths who do it, charge a bit more.
Cheers,
Bill Whedon
Serpent Music

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So, Bill, if I send you my new Burke, can you make it red? :stuck_out_tongue:

Is “Flame” a pure red, or does it tend toward the orange or the magenta at all?

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Heya, Mike, er… uh… well… Given that I don’t know what alloy of aluminum Burke uses, I would be scared to death of trying to do the process on it. It would probably work, but I don’t want to take chances with dipping someone else’s whistle in sulfuric acid (really!).. So, with all due respect, and in the spirit of friendship… Nope! :stuck_out_tongue:

The “flame” color is done with a dye called “Cardinal”, and it is RED. Aggressively RED.

Now you guys quit trying to get me in trouble! :astonished: I’m trying to be good!

Cheers,
Bill Whedon
Serpent Music

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Not implying or starting anything here, but hasn’t Colin Goldie been offering anodized whistles in a variety of colors for several years now?

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He not only does colored anodized whistles, he also does coated ones in wood and stone “look”. I didn’t start the thread to sell whistles, though, but to offer information to anyone else who might want to do the process. It isn’t difficult or costly, and anyone who makes aluminum whistles can benefit from it, by giving their instruments a more durable finish, and their customers cleaner fingers after playing same.

It’s “Whistle Tech Talk”… not “Whistle For Sale Talk”. :slight_smile:

Back to anodizing the Burke ex post facto for a moment: One other thing that would have to be considered is possibly trapping sulfuric acid or sodium hydroxide in a nook/cranny of the fipple or tuning mechanism. Though unlikely to cause you any major personal physical grief, it might cause corrosion of those areas where traces were left. I anodize the parts prior to assembly, and rinse them thoroughly, and I’d suspect most others do, as well.

Cheers,
Bill Whedon, owner
Serpent Music

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No offense meant, Bill, I wasn’t suggesting that you were selling - merely offering the info for anyone else that was interested. My Goldie overton low D is actually one of the wood grain ones, possibly the first one.

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Just thought a little from what I have learned over the years regarding anodising. The polishing has to be more than spotless and even then during the process depending on the handling in the anodising company tiny marks can happen at times. Any scratch or mark will be preserved underneath the anodising which can be a pain to see.

An already used whistle to anodise at a later stage may not work nicely anymore as the finger fat and salt goes into the material and even though the whistle is re-polished before the process the colour might not take as well around these parts. Also the older your instrument is the more problematic to get a good result. ooops… and first of all, the aluminium needs to be anodising quality not every aluminium can be anodised.

There are different ways of anodising, hard anodising which I have no clue about how it is done, but this also stays very long on the instrument. The process I am familiar with is in a hot acidic colour bath about 90 degrees so materials on the instrument which cannot stand this temperature would have to be removed beforehand and refitted later. In case of a Burke whistle you would have to take the tuning part apart and the o-rings out etc… maybe even the delrin block so I would ask Michael what he thinks before going ahead on this idea. It is not just dipping it into a pot of colour. As the anodising colouring is not really scratch resistant without any further treating there is i.e. teflon coating possible to protect the colour.

De-anodising in General is possible and then to recoat it again but with the de-anodising, material in a (VERY thin layer) gets taken off the instrument all over so there is a slight change in bore as well which may effect the whole instruments tuning if it survived the process in the first place.

In Germany it is very strict (and I think Europe in General) so you would need to find a company who does it for you as you may not be able to just go out and buy the acids to do it yourself, environmental laws are hard in this regard and to get rid of the anodisinig waste I can imagine is quite expensive as well. How do you get rid of the waste, Bill?

Have a good start into the week
Brigitte

P.S. … edited for typos and there might still be lots… and also my “waste”-question.

P.P.S. Chuck, your Low D is one of only two in existence and we are are thinking of not making any more so it will be a collectors item I presume.

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And all of you ‘collectors’ out there can just forget about asking - it’s NOT going anywhere.

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Hi, Brigitte, hi, Chuck! No offense taken, Chuck! :slight_smile: I guess I’m a bit hypersensitive about not wishing to seem as if I’m advertising, especially in a thread of this nature.

Well, last questions first, Brigitte - as of this moment, I’ve not yet had to dispose of the waste chem, but the time is coming. I’ve been in contact with the local Hazardous Materials (HazMat) in my county, and they’ve not yet responded. I expect I’ll have to bottle the stuff and take it somewhere that has the facilities to (probably) heavily dilute it before releasing into the environment. I shudder to think what they’ll charge me, but I intend to deal with the wastes responsibly.

I do something between regular anodizing and a “hard anodizing” process, using 4 amps per square foot of current, and a 12.5% sulfuric acid bath, which is kept near 0C by circulation of ice water through submerged coils. To be “true” hard anodizing, I would also have to use air agitation to keep the temp at the acid/aluminum interface quite cold, as well. I don’t use acidic dyes, nor do I dye in the acid bath. I use both cold and hot process dyes subsequent to the anodizing process itself, the coldest of which is done at 85C.

Boiling the anodized parts in deionized water seals the dyed surface, and I finish up with a wipe-on-wipe-off of beeswax mixed with a little vitamin E oil to soften it. I’m planning to do a nickel acetate dip later on, as I read that is superior.

I make all my parts first, then in a “production line” kind of run, I first do the satin finish, then attach electrodes, then dip in sodium hydroxide solution for 10 - 12 minutes, then rinse with deionized wter. From there, it’s into the anodizing vat, and you know the rest! :slight_smile:

My booklet, with photos, will be out in about a month, and anyone can have it for printing and postage costs (hardcopy), or simple email or snail-mail request, preferably AFTER I’ hope you’ll like toe Broadwiting thole parties. p)
Cheers,
Bill
The dyes I use are common fabric dyes of the colorfast variety, mixed up in a highly-concentrated form.

As Brigitte says, cleanliness is paramount in getting a uniform anodize layer, and subsequently, a good dye “take” frr the dyes.

Want more, wait a bit and the booklet will be out! l(.
Best wishes,
Bill Whedon, Owner
Serpent Music

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Bill, the last two counties I have lived in have an annual “HazMat Disposal Day.” I am not sure if this would apply to you or your situation, but they allow residents to bring in just about anything, including unmarked containers of “mystery mix.” Might want to check into something of that nature.

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Thanks for the tip, Steven! :slight_smile: I’ll check both the MO and KS outfits to see. I don’t really think the stuff will take much to make it harmless - just adding water to bring the H2SO4 content down into the PPM or PPB should render it pretty much not a threat. I had a well in upstate NY that used to produce low levels right from the ground. Smelled nasty, but if you let it stand until the sulfur gas dissipated, it was fine water.

Right now experimenting with different times in the sodium hydroxide wash, and different dye solution strengths. Getting some interesting colors. I’ll put some pictures up in a special section of Serpent Music and let you all know when they’re there. For instance, Rit “Blue Jean Blue” comes out a fantastic dark purple on the anodize!

Another lesson learned: Don’t boil your “Frost” and “Cardinal Red” whistles in the same vat at the same time! :wink: (unless you like pale pink whistles!) :slight_smile:

Cheers,
Bill Whedon
Serpent Music

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Other than Anodizing, the best method of sealing aluminum is Powder Coating. Powder Coat can be purchased from many outlets, but you must have access to a potters kiln to cure it. This process is similar to enameling.

I suggest Electro-forming. This process is similar to Electro-plating except that a conductive paint is applied over an acrylic sealer, separating the paint from the aluminum. Then a thick layer of German Silver is “formed” over the metalic paint(copper oxide). All the equipment you need is a glass tank, weak hydrochloric acid, a fused battery charger and a variac(pot) to regulate the electric current.

Personally, I prefer copper as a base because its easier to paint, enamel, silver plate or patina. Aluminum is cheaper and less heavy, but it is a pain to seal.

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Thomas! You da man! Is an 18 cubic foot gas-fired cone 12 Bailey fiber kiln sufficient? Do I need muffles? :laughing:

I love the idea of electroformed whistles! Suppose I make a model in wax and coat it with a conductive solution that’s impermeable to HCl and then create whistles directly by plating! :smiley: Oh, sure, it’ll take lots of time and lots of gold, but hey, what do ya think I could charge for one ‘o’ them puppies!? :smiley:

But Seriously, Folks… I thought of powder coat, but I really like the translucent metallic look of the dyed anodize. Using the current/voltage setup I have now, I get a really good coating (>0.001") of oxide, and that keeps the surface pretty much scratchproof, which you don’t get with powdercoat, paint, or much of anything else. I know it will wear eventually, but it’s going to take some time.

Aside: Stacey, I took an SE with me to a session in Columbia, MO, and it was the most popular soprano D there… good work, lass! :slight_smile:
Cheers,
Bill Whedon, Owner
Serpent Music
(still working on the booklet)

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The anodizing booklet is almost done. Need a few more pics and I will be sending it to the proofreader (thanks, Steven!)… Then I’ll didtribute, I think, just as a Word document. It will be free for the asking. If anyone has Adobe to make it into a PDF, let me know, please.
Thanks, everyone, for all the help and chatter and stuff! :slight_smile:
Cheers,
Bill Whedon, Owner
Serpent Music