Though I never intend to make a whistle myself I’m still curious about the variables that affect how it plays. Colin Goldie is currently making me a non-standard Low D and mentioned shortening the ramp (is that’s its technical term?) from the windway. So I would like to know how the length of the ramp, and also its angle, affects the playability and tone of the whistle. And while I’m at it how does the design of the blade and its sharpness, also affect the whistle’s performance. Thanks very much.
Your question hasn’t produced a lot of response not because nobody cares, but (in my guess) because nobody is sure they have an answer. It’s come up before, /viewtopic.php?f=1&t=92831#p1105498, for example.
Please ask Colin Goldie for us. I’d certainly be interested in what he could share. It is possible he wasn’t referring to shortening the length of the ramp itself, but the distance between the ramp and the windway. That has more predictable effects, like making the second octave easier.
Re-reading my post I can see it can be misinterpreted. By ramp I mean the slope attached to the block and the end of the windway not the blade that creates the sound. Because my low whistle requirements are very different from the norm, my conversations with Colin are never short and I’m always conscious of taking him him away from his work. But if I’ve time when my whistle is ready I’ll maybe ask for more information if none is forthcoming from others of the forum. But what I got from him was that he’s going to shorten the ramp. He is already shortening the window/vent itself making the exit from the windway closer to the blade in order to make the upper second and lower third octaves easier to play. But, from what I can gather, a long ramp will strengthen the bottom note, whereas a short ramp or no ramp at all will weaken the bottom note and again make the upper octave easier to play. What changing the angle of the ramp does I’ve no idea, maybe much the same things. And as for adjustments to the blade, like sharpening it or changing its angle, I’ve no idea about that but would be interested.
BTW what are the generally used terms on the forum for the ramp and the blade if these are incorrect or misleading?
nobody is sure they have an answer
I am not so sure about that, a lot has been written about this sort of thing and the theory of it is well understood. The the nuts and bolts of it are perhaps not quickly explained with a degree of detail in a forum post but there is a library full on the subject of the acoustics of woodwinds and even a more general treatment of musical acoustic, Benade for example, is probably a good starting point for anyone who really wants to understand the subject.
I assume you mean a bevel/chamfer on the fipple block at the end of the windway? My experience is that more of a bevel strengthens the lower notes and makes the whistle less susceptible to jumping into the upper octave.
Benade would probably be worth a read.
Bevel is the better word and what you’ve said, Chas, is another way of saying what Colin suggested.
Yes, “bevel” is better. To me, the “ramp” is the sloping surface downwind of the blade, away from the fipple and windway.
As for a lot being written, I’ve seen precious little on the effect of the bevel. There’s Experimental Study of the Influence of the Mouth Geometry on Sound Production in a Recorder-like Instrument: Windway Length and Chamfers, by Ségoufin, et al. I haven’t got my hands on a copy, but for what it’s worth, the abstract says, “Adding chamfers to a long windway greatly stabilizes the system and gives the instrumentalist a wider dynamical playing range on a given mode of the pipe. Adding chamfers to a short windway doesn’t help to stabilize the system.”
Here are a few general points, from Bart Hopkin’s book on instrument design.
You might do some research on organ pipe construction, the fundamentals are the same, but the names have been changed to protect…
The ‘languid’ is the divider between the foot (fipple) and the body (tube). There should be quite a bit of info, though much of it theoretical I’m sure, on the angle of the bevel, and its thickness relative to the width of the mouth (window).
Just found the advice Daniel Bingamon offers here on his website. He calls it the “lower chamfer.” “This important edge is forgotten by many in homebuilt instruments. Actually a radius here is better than a chamfer. A proper cut here will make a more powerful tone.”
And vice versa. A small chamfer makes nice, easy and crisp upper register notes but makes a shaky lower register. The lowest one or two notes might be impossible. As Dan Bingamentions*, a rounding of the end of the fipple works very well and that’s what I use. Making it is simple-- chuck the fipple in the lathe and while it spins touch the end of it in a rolling motion with a flat file. Start with a tiny rounding, test, round a bit more, repeat until everything plays right. If you go too far, make a new plug.
- I obviously meant “Bingamon mentions”. I found the unintentional portmanteau word too appropriate to edit away
The stuff from Bingamon and Hopkins is very helpful though I’m having problems interpreting the latter. Maybe I can find the diagrams he refers to.
Brewerpaul, I remember watching a video by Phil Hardy on the history of the Chieftain Low D and he made the first of the OS models I think without any bevel/chamfer just a squared-off windway. I’ll have to try and find it again because I think he mentioned that creating a bevel strengthened the first octave notes particularly the lowest. I know that everything in Colin’s notions of good whistle-making recoils at the idea of any bottom notes or octaves that are weak so I think he will only minimally shorten the ramp, the idea being to make the whistle so that bottom first octave notes are strong but not at all pushable and that second/lower third octave notes are easy and relaxed. After playing a medium Low D it will take some adapting too but I pointed to the likes of the Ian Lambe Low D or Reviol as close models of what I’m seeking. I would buy one of them but I prefer the feel and tone of the Goldie plus he will make it with big holes.
Maybe I can find the diagrams he refers to.
You can browse around in the Googlebook I linked to. I am not sure it’s the same edition I have here but the chapter on Aerophones starts four pages before the one I linked, those should mostly cover the things he refers to.
Thanks, Mr Gumby.
While we’re talking about getting an easy to play upper octave, Davy Spillane (whose recordings included frequent visits to third octave E) I gather, modified his big hole Overton by adjusting the block so that the windway started narrower (in height) than it finished. I’ve no idea what adjustment he made to the bevel if any but I can’t imagine how a tapered windway would affect playability, tone or the ability to reach the third octave in a relaxed manner. It seems a very inefficient way to go. I’m told from someone who has played it that the bottom note was very difficult to get.
Having a bevel or not can only go so far in influencing a whistle. There are many little dimensions to be considered in the sound producing part of a whistle and each of these plays a part in how the whistle plays and sounds. These include height of windway, flat vs curved windway, distance between fipple and blade, width of windway and blade and geometry of the blade (steep vs shallow, sharp edge vs rounded etc).
Changing any of these can make a dramatic change in the voicing of the whistle. In my whistles, most of these dimensions are created by hand with files and abrasives rather than CNC machining. For me this is the most fun and exciting part of making whistles. I can make 2 or three theoretically identical whistles, from the same billet of wood, and have them come out with distinctly different personalities.
Understood.
I can make 2 or three theoretically identical whistles . . . and have them come out with distinctly different personalities
Colin is always telling me the same thing.
Hi mike,
The angle and thickness of the ramp is one of the most sensitive adjustments when forming a voice.
When working with a straight ramp. it is relatively easy to do this 2-dimentional adjustment.
But when working with a curved ramp, it becomes a whole lot more exacting.
If you are working with an inert material such as plastic or metal, then it is a little easier depending on what tools you are using. Keep in mind that a file will always produce a convex surface - which will affect the shape of the vortex, and hence, the sound.
The bevel is not important for inert materials. But it is vital for the durability of an active material such as wood.
Wood cannot form a stable ramp-edge on the critical blade angle.
The wood must be beveled because the variability of grain and how the wood will decay if made into a sharp edge.
Now. When you devise the method for cutting the ramp, you will have a specific angle-of-incedence in mind.
This angle is a trade-off between octave-balance, timbre and performance in wind.
SO. You set an angle of your choice, but when you go to execute it with your tools (chisel, router or CNC etc.)
So what do you find?
Oh dear .. microns of deviation of that cut will change the window-depth.
Too short and the whistle will be “flutey” and soft, too long and it will be harsh and loud with a difficult second octave.
This, in chaos math, is called the “butterfly effect” .. but not so chaotic really - it is simply the exponent described by the tangent in trigonometry. (we are dealing with circles here).
But the chaos sets-in with the affect of the ramp upon the turbulence-vortex produced over the ramp.
If you are a few microns short of your desired ramp-depth, you will end-up with a much deeper bevel.
If that bevel gets too great, the second octave will become unruly.
(I will assume that you have determined the best bevel angle and will be consistent with it)
If the bevel angle becomes too steep, you will introduce a “breathy-ness” which will compromise the timbre.
If this happens, you have to reduce the ramp until the bevel comes into an acceptable range without producing too much curve on the ramp over all.
To do this you will need to have a good sharp curved chisel or a convex file - and it will take a long time.
Whistles are non-linear.
At best they are exponential, at most they are chaos.
The laws of turbulence (the thing that makes the sound-vortex) .. that law guarantees chaos.
The maker must explore the chaos until the voice is found.
(I asserted the chaos of whistles many years ago here in this forum, I was challenged by a “fluid dynamicist” that my subjective impression did not prove “chaos”. I have since done the university course on non-linear math, and I was correct and now have the math to prove it.)
In my experience: there are many voices concealed within the infinite curls of chaos above the ramp.
Explore them - each material and each starting-point contain what you want if you go looking.
So go look.
I will never release a whistle I would not be happy to play.
But it helps to get to know the player a bit - that will influence the “sweet-spot” which become4s a dialogue between you, the maker, and other - the player. This is the core of music as a joiner of people.
No thing is anything else.
No moment has been felt before.
In summary:
You will have certain angles that form the basis of how you make a ramp.
Stick with them as the skeletal framework of what you do.
But please do remember - they are wrong.
But that’s not a bad thing.
Your wrongness will force you to explore all other factors before you find your wrongness.
And in the process?
You will learn it all.
And let me warn you:
There is no right.
But at least you will learn rightness relative to others.
From here?
That’s what life is all about.
Send a little love out with all your work. Never sever the connection.
Math and money can never be the final word.
If you want some other technical tips, PM me - but remember: they are only starting points - and all of chaos depends upon where you start.
Let me just ponder that thought for awhile… 
Happy 8-27-2016 everyone!
Thanks for your thoughts, Mitch