why is cheaper easier?

Whistle
1

Now that I’ve tried a small variety of mid to high priced whistles, I was wondering why it seems that hitting the second octave in general and leaping from first to second octave notes in particular and playing fast second octave arpeggios in particular are all easier on my Feadog, Sweetone, Waltons, etc. than on the more expensive designs? (Read Feadog and Waltons as tweaked.)

I’m suspecting it has something to do with the wall thickness of the instrument . . . .

I put in lots of hours adjusting to the second octave trickiness in the higher priced whistles, so that’s why I don’t think it is just because I was “used to” the cheapies. I adjusted, but when I go back to the cheapies, they almost play themselves. It’s like all I have to do is think second octave on the cheapies and that is what comes out.

Lisa

[ This Message was edited by: ysgwd on 2002-08-21 11:05 ]

2

What more expensive designs did you try?

I’ve found that for me it’s mostly a measure of how much air I am used to using. I primarily play the laughing and have discovered a lot of trouble when I use a higher-air whistle like a susato. Conversely, I couldn’t get a solid low D on an improved feadog the other week, was using too MUCH air! :laughing:

3

High priced:
Chieftain
Copeland
Silkstone
Reyburn (high and low)

Mid priced:
Susato
Hoover
Sweetheart Maple

I was thinking some more about my thin walled theory. My Hoovers behave like my cheapies in second octave ease. They are also thin walled.
The Susatos have relatively thick walls, albeit plastic, compared to my cheapest easiest whistles, and they are also trickier in the second octave. The SH maple (newer design) has slightly thinner walls than my Susato Kildares do. The SH second octave plays easier than my Susatos do. Well, except for the C Kildare Susato, the easiest of my Susatos.

Av,
I agree with you about breath requirement differences throwing us off. But, I can adjust much more quickly to playing second octave stuff on my cheapies after playing the “finer” designs.

I was thinking about the physics involved, that the spiraling column of air from our breath causes the tube to vibrate at the frequency of the fingered length of the instrument, and that thicker walls take more something to change the frequency of vibration especially to the higher frequencies??? Sorry, I’ve never had a class in physics…I’m sure it is more complicated than this, given fipple design, tone hole size, bore diameter, etc., but it would be fun for me to know that my findings aren’t just coincidental.
Lisa

oops I forgot to mention my Laughing–mid priced but thin walled like my Hoovers and cheapies. And, easy second octave transitions.
More dilettante physics thinking: The SH maple’s molecules may be more tightly packed than the Susato’s?

[ This Message was edited by: ysgwd on 2002-08-21 11:44 ]

[ This Message was edited by: ysgwd on 2002-08-21 11:46 ]

[ This Message was edited by: ysgwd on 2002-08-21 11:49 ]

4

Note: all notes below are from high d whistles.

I don’t have many of the brands you mentioned, just Silkstone (green plastic), Hoover (Narrow Bore D), Sweet (Blackwood) and Susato (several, both Kildare and Dublin models).

Of the four, the Silkstone has the widest range without straining (2 1/2 + octaves). I find it far easier to pull through both octaves than any of the Susatos or the Sweet.

The Hoover has an equivalent range, but is hard to play on a tune that ranges in both octaves because the air need on the bell D and E are so low that it’s almost impossible for me to drop down to them and not overblow.

Overall, in terms of ease of play across both octaves, I’d rank them 1. Silkstone, 2. Hoover, 3. Sweet, 4, Susato.

Your wall thickness theory may have a lot of validity when combined with material. I’ve just been playing with some of my real cheapies (Generation, Oak, Clare), all of which are thin walled metal. All three break into the upper octave much like the Hoover, although the lowest notes are easier to hit consistently on the cheapies when playing, and the cheapies break upward more easily than the much thicker-walled aluminum Overton.

Similarly, I find that the Water Weasel plays as easily as the Silkstone into the second octave, but at least in my hands has a slightly less extensive top range no matter how hard I blow. The two, to my naked eye, look to be thinner-walled than the Susato Kildare, which doesen’t break upward as easily, at least for me.

5

I felt that way (as expressed in first post) until I got a Burke. I had tried fancy-pants whistles at LITM and wouldn’t buy one because they were balkier in the upper register than any of my Feadogs or Gens.

But the Burkes are easy in the upper register and I have high E, D, C and Low A and G.

The low ones are tricker, need to be played a bit (aluminum not composite) and you have to make mental/physical adjustments.

I think your theory of thick thin walls is partly true but counterbalanced by other design features. I think that the Burke Low whistles may be too thin, but it makes them have less breath requirements, maybe. I have a chieftains, which is thick wall and requires a lot more breath, even tho the opening is smaller, which confounds me…Guess we need a physics lesson , or at least I do.

But don’t give up on premiums. Try others, you will find one you like and your intonation problems and tweaking days will be over.

6

On 2002-08-21 12:36, Chuck_Clark wrote:
Your wall thickness theory may have a lot of validity when combined with material

Maybe, but my soprano-D Dixon Duo breaks into the upper octave exceedingly easy, and it’s got a much thicker wall than my Soodlum, which while easy, is not quite that easy.

In fact, after playing my Chieftains for a bit, the Soodlum is the only other one I can play, because I tend to over-blow the Dixon.

7

I don’t make whistles and have no intentions or desire to start. I have a number of cheap and expensive whistles, including an O’Riordan wood high d, which has the thickest walls of anything I’ve seen besides my skull. This whistle allows very easy transition between octaves. The whistles that have the more difficult transition have narrow windways and require a lot more pressure to get the high notes. Therefore, one needs to alter breath pressure to a greater degree to move between the octaves. It takes practice making the changes in breath pressure.
Tony

8

Tony: that makes great sense but wouldnt that make tweaker cheapies harder to play. I mean, the tweaking involves narrowing the windway right? Or is it not enough. When i think about it, the Chieftains is pretty narrow top to bottom. What would happen if material were removed???

9

Tweaking’s a generic term that doesn’t have to involve narrowing the windway. Usually, it doesn’t. I wouldn’t dare remove material from the fipple/windway area. You could really destroy the sound completely.
Tony

10

Chuck,
Excluding my metal cheapies, I own each of the whistles you ranked, and I agree with your ranking.–“Overall, in terms of ease of play across both octaves, I’d rank them 1. Silkstone, 2. Hoover, 3. Sweet, 4, Susato.”

I’ve decided at this point that wall thickness is definitely a consideration in selecting a fipple design. I agree with Tony that fipple/windway design is an important variable in ease of playing across octaves.

I did find a high end whistle that is certainly easy enough for me to play so I can appreciate it’s superior tone qualities, and that is the Silkstone alloy. I still need a good mezzo A, and I’m considering Burke, now more so because of a post above.

And, even though my Reyburn sop whistles aren’t the easiest to play, I subjectively love their unique tone qualities so much that I’ll work harder for them.

Thanks everybody for participating in a discussion about what I find to be a bit of a conflict.

Lisa