Whistle-related research for children's book

I got this email. I’d appreciate the thoughts of anyone who has some extras to share.

To: Dale
From: Anna
Subject: tin whistle factoids

Hello,

I’m working on a children’s book about Irish step dancing masters, turn of
the century Ireland. One of the main characters is a young musician who
accompanies his father’s fiddle playing with a flute, or tin whistle.

Would a boy in a village like Dooney around 1920s or so own a flute, or is
more likely that he’d have a tin whistle? What are the tin whistles called,
any nicknames, do people just call them whistles?

Is there anything of note that a player would do to the whistle after
playing it quite quickly, or after a number of songs? I’m trying to keep
this as right as possible even though it’s fiction.

Any terms that I can throw in, like for the breathing, fingering, standing
straight would be really helpful, thanks!

Anna

What to do after playing it a while? Well flinging spit from the end across the room is one, but I dunno if you want to encourage children to do that… :laughing:

Seems to me, a few of our members might have some information to provide about what brands of whistles were available in Ireland in the '20s. I would think Generations and original Clarkes would certainly have been on the scene. Perhaps they would know of links to pictures of whistles from that era.

Best wishes,
Jerry

Unfortunately my mind went the same place as Sam’s - if he was playing the flute, he could drip spit on the fiddler’s shoe; I know that’s what always makes a session fun for me.

I can’t say for certain, but I would guess that if he did own a flute it would be a concert (wooden) hand-me-down from the continent, perhaps German. Hammy Hamilton would be a good place to get information like that.

Erik

Another good place to go for this kind of information is the www.yahoo.com flutemakers group. Several of the folks who populate that board are authorities on the history of flutes and could surely give some good suggestions.

Best wishes,
Jerry

Fintan Vallely should be a great source, having published books and such.
Cheers,
Aaron

The travelling dancingmasters are fairly well documented, Breathnach writes about them at length in ‘Irish Folk music and dances’, a lot of information can be found in his ‘Dancing in Ireland’. A travelling dancing master by the name of Pat Barron is often described in articles about Junior Crehan, they will yield a lot of information too about the nuts and bolts of the whole thing [the arrangement of them staying at a house for prolonged periods, fees for dances, way of teaching, the sort of tunes they had as often the dancingmasters would have special dances for special tunes].
Often in the context of [step] dancingmasters the story of ‘competitions’ between rival teachers comes up, for them a door would be pulled off it’s hinges and put on a table, the competing dancers would perform their steps on the confined surface of the door.
An interesting feature of the old houses was that they often had a ‘battering pot’, a clay pot dug in under the flagstones of the kitchenfloor to create a resonant chamber the step dancers could use to amplify as it were the sound of their ‘battering’.
There is some information to be found in articles about the Russels concerning instruments etc [see Mick Moloney, Michael Coady etc].
The whistle usually described for the early part of the century would be the Clarke [type] whistle, the concert flute was harder to come by, they were expensive and they are often described as having been sent over by relatives who found them in pawn shops and the like in England or America. Flutes would only come into the hands of the better players.
The whistle is called the flute sometimes by the older generation [the tin flute as opposed to the german or concertflute, timberflute was also sometimes used as a name for the flute].
I am not sure a young boy would have been considered strong enough to fill a flute for a dance, whistleplayers often moved on to the flute [for greater volume] coming up to their mid teens.
Bill Ochs in preparation for the Micho Russell book has done some considerable research into the housedances, I have exchanged some information with Bill and talked fairly extensively to older people in the locality about the dances durin their younger days.
At the housedances players would often sit on chairs placed on a table or on the settlebed. Music, in Clare at least, would have been provided by combinations of fiddles, [german]concertinas, whistles and flutes. Musicians would, during the season, often play at a different dance nearly every night of the week[walking considerable distances to get there], those who played at the dances all say it was very hard work, tipping away for hours on end.
It is also interesting to note that there would have been no or hardly any formal music teaching, people would be shown the basics and then it was from there on picked up at the dances, there are wonderful stories of Junior Crehan and his contemporaries standing behind Scully Casey at dances, just watching and listening, to pick up on bowing patterns and tunes.

All joking in the previous posts aside, there’s no harm in realising tuberculosis was as rampant in Ireland as everywhere else and people were likely to be aware of the dangers of flinging a spit filled whistle around a kitchen full of people.

Below is a pic of a typical and wellknown house for dances, the now ruined birthplace of my great friend concertinaplayer Kitty Hayes in Fahalunaghta, Miltown Malbay. Which is about a mile and a half over the hill from where I am writing this. In it’s time there were many dances, Kitty’s father played the concertina with Willie Clancy’s father, Gilbert, playing the concertflute. During Kitty’s youth all the great musicians of the day and locality played there, Jimmy Hogan and Pappy Looney, Packie Russell, Paddy and John Killourhy and many more. Dances would have taken place in the kitchen, the room between the two chimneys

Very interesting post, Peter. And I love that photograph… Sad to think of the times and dances gone by there.

I recall reading in the Dossan of Heather (find it here) that Packie Manus Byrne, who remembers the 20s and 30s in rural Donegal, said that the whistle was regarded as a toy and as inappropriate for the dances. Dance music was provided by fiddlers, and if none were at hand, lilting would be prefered over a whistle. At least that’s what I remember, I don’t have the book right here to check. (I do remember Packie describing the whistle as rolled, tapering tin with a bit of wood in the mouthpiece, which would be a Clark-style whistle, of course.)[/url]

Peter, thanks for the insightful post. Do you have any idea what, if anything, the players were paid? Was this a ‘for profit’ venture or simply folks getting together for a fun time?

There are two issues here Erik, the travelling dancing master, about whom the question really was and the house dances.

Dancing Masters often provided their own music, mainly because they would have special tunes. Setdances mostly that had their own steps. They would be professionals and received a fee for teaching [they also would be put up and kept while in an area, pupils would come to the house and they’d pay for tuition].

The house dances would be organised in a way that a small ‘entrance fee’ would be charged to cover for tea, cakes, sandwiches and maybe a keg of porter. Musicians would be given some of that money for their trouble. They’d do it for the fun of it though, you must realise there was just nothing else, people loved the dances and all stories are usually filled with a great sense of fun. Later the Dance Hall Act was passed and state and church tried to suppress dancing [sinfull business afer all], ways were divised to get around that again, elaborate set ups often.

There are also stories of a few fluteplayers, includign Micho Russell, playing music on the Promenade in Lahinch for tourists [from Ennis and Limerick that would be, brought in on the West Clare Railroad], outside sets would be danced, every participant paying a certain amount per set.
That sort of thing went on during the 1940s.

Off the top of my head I don’t know what sort of money was involved but I could look it up, in a country where there was basically no money anything earned would be a great help. Musicians earning a bit that way would be considered well enough off. Same is said about Johnny Doran who played at races etc, he made heaps more money than any ordinary working man. Some older people who saw him play said they never saw him without a suit and tie.

Thank you again, Peter. Interesting stuff.