whats the deal with Uilleann pipers & pipemakers?

Uilleann Pipes
1

just something i’ve noticed…when a highland piper picks up the pipes, they dont care about how there made or even sometimes who made them( im not saying that pipemaker is not important). But, when a Uilleann piper pickes up a set of pipes, they ponder about how there made, by who, and when. Maybe what time of year they were made, or how many pipes were made by the pipemaker before this one. Then they are told they might have to learn how to make reeds. umm..ok. and sometimes not just one, but 7 reeds, sometimes more. umm..ok. The question is why are UPrs more intrested in making pipes then Highland pipers making GHBs? Maybe im wrong. There is alot more highland pipers then UPrs, so maybe its a population kind of thing. If not, why whould people be more attracted to something that might be 3 or 4 times harder to make? And I know GHB pipers and UP pipers are compleatly differnt animals. Maybe im crazy about UPs? Rorschach tests are fun!

Just something to think about. if you have any input, i would love to hear it.

Christian Shackleton

2

Chris, consider that UPs are capable of so much more than GHBs - ability to play stacatto, ability to play at least 2 octaves, ability to turn the drones off at will, ability to add chordal accompaniment, ability to play Irish music, which is so much better than Scottish music. :wink:

These greater abilities of the UPs come at a cost - the set must be well made to be playable and to last, the reeds must be made to much stricter standards than GHB reeds to meet the greater demands that are made on them. People obsess about the make and maker as it can have such a significant effect on their ability to make great music on UPs.

djm

3

wrong,highland pipers care as much about their pipes as any up player,tell that to fred morrison.i own a set of hendersons from the 1870s,i paid 7000.us for them.i also play ups, there are more gh pipers,only a handfull that can play, and tune their pipes,and blow good tone. there are lots of lousey players in the world,who put on a kilt and think that they are pipers.only 9 notes,thats why the gracing is so much more complicated ,and takes lots of practice to play it right. alot of the uilleann tunes are also played ghb,and visa versa.there are some great pipers out there that play all three , uilleanns, border,and ghbs…my two cents.

4

But despite the great tradition of GHB, the instrument just isn’t as complicated to play. You squeeze a bag (albeit with enough pressure to burst a pigskin), you blow, and you play tunes on a chanter(with indeed many difficult embellishments). Now UP’s have chanter and bag, just like that, but then also there’s a bellows, which for some reason is far harder to use than just breathing. And then you have to get used to two separate pressures for the two octaves. And on that’s just the practice set. Then comes drones, keeping a steady tone that doesn’t wander up or down. And learning how to flip them on and off in the middle of playing. And when you think your musical brain is stuffed to the brim, THEN you learn about… regulators. Really, in terms of operational complexity, there’s no comparison. I don’t mean any disrespect to all of you GHB’ers out there. I know that the conditioned reflexes, the birls and all that, are not easy. But the GHB is a simpler weapon, with a lot less features, and a lot less players.

5

The real question is not which pipes is the most difficult to play (It is a bit like a child question : who is the stronger, elephant or hippopotamus ? :stuck_out_tongue: )
To stay on topic, I think that it’s always difficult for a piper to find the good reed for his pipes (whatever the pipes), I mean a reed with a brilliant full sound (yes, GHB pipers can make the difference between a good and a stuff reed ! :wink: ). For the drones, it is the same, even if there is now very good synthetics for ghB pipes.
Reeds is the most important in pipes, but in GHB like in UP, or any other instruments, there is good and bad instrument (even pakistani ones !). The rule in GBH is roughly the older the better (I mean pipes wich has been made before 1950s like Henderson, Reid …) and as it is said in this discussion, some can be buy for a lot of money. But it is also true that you can have a correct “semi-industrial” GHB for a relative low cost, while UPs are mostly made by craftsmen. One reason because GHB pipers don’t ask for the origine of the pipes is that they recognize them. There is quite a few makers (less than in UPs I think). They much more take care of the skill of the player, because a good player can play lovely on a standard pipes. (GHB or UP)
For the technics of both instruments, as I said, there is no comparison. Each have is own difficulty. The best is to (try to) play both !
Cheers ! :smiley:

6

I have played GHB for 10 years and I can tell you that, although not quite as obsessive as UP players, GHB players do indeed consider their pipes and their makers carefully. I play a nice set of Granger & Campbell’s crafted in 1968 with a Naill chanter for solo competition and a Sinclair for band.

GHB players, I would say, almost never make their own reeds, but reed makers are a topic of conversation. Although the instrument is far more standardized than UPs (whch will become so as numbers of players increase), there are reeds that work better in some chanters than others and this is a topic for discussion among us.

I play UPs and GHBs and SSPs and I love them all. I am certain that there are skills that I have on some that transfer to the others. For example, I have no doubt that my skill on GHBs allowed me the finger control to learn most UP fingerings in about a week; that my SSP bellows technique allowed me to pick up the UPs right away; that my daily prafctice with UPs keeps my fingers strong and in control such that my GHB playing is enhanced even though the fingerings are different… etc.

So, now the question: you’re on a lifeboat and you can only take one type of pipes with you… which do you choose?

Dave Jones

7

The GHB of course - the reeds will handle the humidity and you can drink the condensation in the bag when you run out of water. Need more water? Play more toons. :smiley:

Cheers,

DavidG

8

I don’t know who you know, but the highland pipers I know are extremely interested in the quality, maker, and every detail about their instrument. But, I do realize there are many highland pipers who play in street bands who are unconcerned with tone and musicality. Maybe these are your acquaintances.

Few other instruments lend themselves to folks playing them so poorly in public with little or no consequences. But, there are many of us who care deeply about our instrument and sound. You just need to hang around a better class of highland pipers. :slight_smile:

As far as how difficult one instrument is over another, it’s a tie. All instruments take talent and dedication to play well.

Best, John

9

… to a point, but they also will drown and cesae playing when too wet.

10

ouuugfht… better get a bucket…

11

The highland pipes are far more standardized than the UP ever have been. You can even buy over-the-counter reeds for highland pipes that more or less play, whereas UP reeds have to be fitted to a particular chanter in most circumstances.

So, all warpipe flamage aside, the variation among makers and sets is higher in UP, thus the question is arguably more dramatically important.

Bill

12

Probably because uilleann pipes are 3 to 4 times more expensive and they want to play these things come hell or high water?

Patrick.

13

Thought I might add this at the risk of being lynched by all the GHB’ers and Scots people alike out there but it is only in jest. Last year when attending a session at the Spaniard in Kinsale, Eire I was talking to one of the musician’s 'bout me pipes and an Australian overhearing the conversation commented on his set that he had just bought in Scotland B4 visiting Ireland. The musician laughed and said with a cheeky Irish smile on his face…"Way back in the 18th century, we sent the GHB’s to Scotland as a joke… The trouble is, they still haven’t got the joke :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: "
I thought it was funny anyway. OK, I’m ready to be hung drawn and quartered now :sniffle: make it quick :boggle:

14

nice joke, don’t worry, GHB players don’t have the joke, but they have a sense of humour !
anyway, pipes are known to be in scotland since early middle ages …

15

Quoting Ciaran Carson from his Irish Traditional Music:

“…but it has to be admitted that, for those who seek to embody the spirit of the nation in a physical object, the [uilleann] pipes are an ideal hobby horse. They are thingy, complicated; they are a conversation piece. Reeds, regulators, drones, comparative length of chanters, beeswax, drones, hemp, rushes, pads, popping pads, valves, drones, can be discussed until the cows come home.”

The good author forgot the weather. It’s around 90F and 68% humidity hereabouts. My chanter reed’s turned to mush for the time being and consequently my back D has become a thing of wild caprice if I play too long. The overall intonation has also gone a bit strange, but is doable, thankfully. The set just plain feels peevish these past few days.

See? There I go. :laughing:

16

Ppphhhheeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwww :smiley:

17

did you start your drones maw ?
Ezeedrones reeds I guess …
:party:

18

I have a slightly different take on Christian’s question (Correct me if I’m wrong Christian)

What I took the question in part to be is: Why are there so many UP players who also decide they want to meddle in pipe and reed making. As opposed to GHB players who are virtually ALL content to buy pipes, and the majority also tend to buy reeds.

Whether or not that’s the question, that’s the one I’ll answer as there are lots of responses to the other one :slight_smile:

Why do UPers tend to want to make pipes and care about their construction? Well I think because to some extent a lot of UPers tend to be tinkering types by nature. You really have to be - and maybe somewhat moreso than with GHBs. Also, the availability of pipes is such that many people feel frustrated that they’ll have to wait so long for pipes. They just think “why not build my own”. Also, UP building is arguably more complicated and with less standardization than the GHB so chosing a maker may be a more delicate task due to things like: cost, wait times, and playability of the resulting instrument. I’m guessing if you look at serious GHB players who are buying the sets that are made by the premier makers, who have to wait for a while and pay UP level prices for instruments - they probably take as much care and interest in construction as UP players do.

Without getting too much on my soapbox, I think the itch to homebuild is the downfall of many would-be pipers who really might have potential to play a good instrument well, but try pipemaking when they really have no command of the instrument itself. My opinion (and blast away if you disagree) is that you shouldn’t really attempt to build one until you are skilled enough at playing it to recognize a good thing. The caveats to this being a skilled craftsman/instrument builder who works with a skilled piper, taking input on the design - working as a team to build an excellent instrument or kit instruments such as the Penny Chanter - and even then, letting David make it for you is more of a sure thing.

As far as reedmaking, the first argument about UPers being tinkering types still applies. Also here though, there is a lack of standardization among the UP sets out there so reeds are really a custom job. That means if you can become skilled at making them yourself, you dont’ need to send off your chanter for re-reeding, and you can tailor a reed to suit not only your chanter, but also your personal preferences. That being said, I still believe that until a player reaches some reasonable level of proficiency, he or she should leave reedmaking to those who can recognize when the reed/chanter combination is performing correctly.

In summary - pipers like to tinker, and the individualization of the instrument lends it self to customization, and to those who like to bore, scrape, sand and ream. That being said, those who are just beginning should tread with caution and realize that if their goal is to play, they would almost surely be best served by getting a good chanter made by a skilled pipemaker, with a solid reed by an excellent reedmaker, and practicing for years before even thinking about doing anything more than routine maintenance.

This is my opinion only and I recognize that there will be many people who will disagree. This has worked well for me for 8 years though, and I’d say I’ve become reasonably skilled at playing in that time.

Cheers,

Pelham

19

Did I miss something? :boggle:

20

That.