I’ve been thinking about this for a while. I know the definition of a good session varies from person to person & I’d like to hear your responses.
For me I think the music has to be good; ah, that rather bland adjective again. What do I think is good? I’ll start off with ability: the player should be well in tune, have good intonation & even more importantly a good rhythm. I prefer more swing than others; however, I don’t really care as long as the rhythm is solid. Phrasing is really important, without good phrasing everythingjustsoundslikeatypewriteryoucanttellifitsajigorareel. Case in point, you need spaces & breaths for things to make sense. Repetoire: I think the players should have around 250, or so, tunes in common. Ideally, I’d rather them not be the same sets week in & week out; familiarity breeds contempt. I like new tunes added regularly, I’m not often able to figure out a tune on the spot, but it’s great practice trying.
But what about the other stuff: the personalities, jokes & (un)sexy waitstaff?
Brad, sounds like you are looking for a fairly high level of ability. From what I have seen, the few people who would meet your standards of knowledge and ability quickly tire of looking for sessions at their level and mostly just get together with friends. That means that if you’re not “in the loop” you’ll never know what is going on behind closed doors.
Many of the people who are vocal about trying to find sessions don’t play fast or well, are still learning their instruments, and don’t have 25 tunes, let alone 250. They are looking for sessions led by experienced players to help them along. The experienced players want sessions at their own level, not babysitting, so you will seldom find them at the sessions many/most are looking for.
That’s my experience, anyway. It may be different in Ireland, but I understand there are a whole raft of other issues at Irish sessions, so those aren’t all as open-door as one might think. For instance, some pubs in Ireland actually hire people to do “sessions” (is it really a session at all?) and you cannot just waltz in and join in.
I’m only stating what I like, I know it’s not the norm. There are some sessions around me meet these ‘hopes’ & sessions in ‘close-by’ Boston & NYC that far exceed them.
I’m sure your selling people short, if a session only had 25 tunes week in & week out & never grew - it would die quickly. The musicians would soon get bored and/or the publican would pull the plug. I’ve seen it happen.
Maybe your speaking of slow sessions?
What world are you living in? Just about all regular pub sessions have a few paid anchors but you can walk in and join, that’s the whole idea of it. Some session groups are not too keen though on everybody joining and will give you a whirl to see if you’re up to the task.
My ideal session wouldn’t be far from Brad’s, small in a quiet place, musicians with a reprtoire of possibly maybe over 250. Tight playing and flexibility in approach i.e. able to make playing together work. Good balance of instruments, not to much of he one thing. No egos. Seems all too obvious.
i don’t fancy too much playing in pubs or ‘sessions’ in general, I am in a position to go to a great session with the best any night of the week but find I most of the time don’t, most of my music is played at home or at other people’s homes.
Brad, I didn’t say not to grow or improve. Its just that, around here, experienced players have no desire to teach or lead a slow session. What you would “like” sounds very much like what Peter is referring to.
Peter, I haven’t been to Ireland - just what people are telling me coming back from there. We don’t have nearly the number of high level players here, so sessions (not all, but most I am familiar with) are slow and stay slow, lacking guidance from more experienced players. Your preferred venue means that no-one outside your clique will ever be able to participate. People able and willing to teach here are extremely rare, so I think we are in two totally different environments, and ideas about sessions would naturely be very different.
I was joking a bit at the notion ‘there seem to be players in Ireland who get paid’ I was just coming back to rephrase that a bit but you had already replied. It is a matter of econimics, people go to pubs to hear music, publicans want to make sure there’s music on the night they advertise it so one or two people get paid to be there. The economy of the West is built on that.
I remember one time in Doolin during the mid 80s, I was talking with an American guy who wondered why I hadn’t joined the session in O Connor’s the nigh before. I told him the lads were doing their gig and weren’t really interested in company that night. Your man nearly hit me, i had shattered his dream of the carefree musicians who wandered into O Connor’s and casually played music all night. It’s a fond memory.
Seriously though, the system functions fine locally whereI know the musicians. I hate it when you go to a summerschool or festival and all pubs have a program, organised musicians, so you can’t walk into a quiet place and start your own thing. Some people love it , it gives them the opportunity to play with famous musicians, I find it is too close to performance in some cases.
Your preferred venue means that no-one outside your clique will ever be able to participate.
That sounds so negative, I prefer playing where you can actually hear yourself without the noise of the drinkers. people drop by for a tune from outside my ‘clique’ recently on two days within the one week one boardmember [Jonathan Hohl] and Bill Ochs droped in for a few tune, we had soem nice tunes, no pub necessary. I visit people for a tune when the moods takes me, yo ucan swap tunes make a mess of things have a chat, do the Irish thing and have buckets of tea and mountains of sandwiches, I much prefer it to music in the bar.
Show up to the high level players sessions, leave your instrument at home & bring a tape recorder. Listen to that tape a few times, you’ll get familiar with the tunes they play this way. It’s way easier to learn a tune that your familiar with. Work on learning the music at home, introduce those tunes to your friends at your session. When you get brave ask them if they could play a tune that you learned from them with them. It’s sure to be a tune they like to play & they should be flattered. If they’re still cold towards you then forget about them, keep learning their music & act civil. Be the bigger man!
…I prefer playing where you can actually hear yourself without the noise of the drinkers. people drop by for a tune from outside my ‘clique’ recently on two days within the one week one boardmember [Jonathan Hohl] and Bill Ochs droped in for a few tune, we had some nice tunes, no pub necessary. I visit people for a tune when the moods takes me, you can swap tunes make a mess of things, have a chat, do the Irish thing and have buckets of tea and mountains of sandwiches, I much prefer it to music in the bar.[/quote]
Brad, that sounds entirely reasonable, except that there are now no sessions near me any longer for the reasons I stated earlier. I have to drive hours to get to one. There just aren’t enough sessions to be able to pick and choose.
Peter, again I would put it to you that we are in entirely different circumstances. With big name performers dropping out of the sky on you like that I guess you can afford to pick and choose. All you need is to have enough sandwiches on hand (when I get rich and famous be sure to stock up on the peanut butter).
My concerns with what both of you say are your preferences is that it precludes anyone who would someday like to be good enough to meet your criteria.
I think a pub is probably the worst place to have a session. House sessions are much nicer. Especially here in the US, where very few punters respect the music or the musicians.
You keep saying that, in other threads too. Nobody is precluded from becoming a decent player. I learned my playing far away from any decent session, I never played much in sessions at all. There are many ways to learn and you will have to suit your circumstances. I did so I reckon anybody can.
I am sure Jonathan is chuffed you called him a big name performer
ANother preference, the session I play on the sundaynights usually plays for one or two sets if there are enough dancers. I enjoy that greatly although I wouldn’t want to play for sets all night [or not too often].
Just went to my first session in oh…about two and a half years last night. Well, it wasn’t really a session, for better or for worse.
When I used to live in Portland, OR, I would sometimes go out on Monday nights to a great little pub called “The Moon & Sixpence” to hear Johnny Connolly (he and bouzouki player Jim Chapman were/are the paid “anchors”). Johnny’s a real nice guy and after a while, he invited me to join them. So, off I’d go pretty much every Monday night and play tunes with Johnny and Jim and usually a couple of other people that would turn up. Whenever he wasn’t touring, Kevin Burke usually would make a point to drop in and play a few tunes. Needless to say, it was great. Then I moved off to Japan. The last time I saw Kevin, he said “if you’re ever back around here, be sure to stop by the Moon.”
So anyway, fast-forward about 2 1/2 years. I’ve just moved back to Portland and last night, I decide to head down to the Moon and see if their little session is going on. Johnny wasn’t there but some fiddle player was subbing, along with a bouzouki player and a guy with a bunch of djembes, doumbeks, and other assorted percussive paraphanalia (he was actually quite good–a bit to loud for my taste, but he could certainly keep a steady beat). After they played a few tunes, I went up and asked “do you mind if I join you guys.”
“Oh, sorry,” said the fiddle player. “Did you think this was a session or something?”
“Paid musicians only,” muttered the bouzouki player.
Surprised and disappointed, I went back to the bar, finished my beer, and listened to them play for a while. About an hour later, they noticed I was still there and asked “hey, have you got your flute with you?”
“Uh, yeah.”
“Well, okay. You can come and play some tunes with us if you want.”
And so I did and once they realized I could actually play, they nicened up pretty quick.
“Sorry about that earlier,” said the fiddle player. “I used to come here and play all the time too. It was always fine when there were just a few people. Then about a year ago, like, twenty people started to show up and it just got totally out of hand, so Johnny decided to close it down and make it paid musicians only. Now the only time I come here is if Johnny’s out of town and I get called to sub for him.”
Fair enough. A session’s a session and a gig’s a gig. Although, I’m sure Kevin Burke can probably come and play whenever he wants…Maybe I’ll go over there again just to listen, but it looks like I’ll have to find other options if I want to play in any really nice sessions.
Brad, I could just “copy and paste” your comments to express what I think. Yes, the session scene in my city has been somewhat nightmarish in the past few years. 250 tunes sounds rights, and being able to play different tunes from one session to the other is a big plus. I’m very good at remembering tunes, and who played them. That’s why it’s becoming more and more frustrating for me to know who’s going to start what, and what tune is coming next, all the time. It seems that some people have been playing the same sets for the past 20 years, and I don’t know how they can still enjoy themselves. I also need new tunes, I’m learning an average of 1-2 tunes per week. I will usually learn like 6-7 tunes and polish them for a while.
What you say about rythm and phrasing is so true. Listening to bad phrasing is like tasting a wine that’s been on the table for too long. It’s still wine, but you just can’t drink it I think lotsa musicians don’t have a clue about phrasing. They will try to sound like Danu or Lunasa, with no style of their own, rushing tunes, etc.
A good session for me is also a session where you enjoy the music each of the participant does, and where you won’t rush to play your tunes, and everyone will have a chance to start a few sets, with no “hoggers” involved. Also, I tend to love reels. The ideal session would be a session where you start with a few jigs, hornpipes, etc, and gradually get on the reel-wagon. Also, you should only be playing the tunes you know, or hit the right notes if you are trying to learn the tune on the stop. Don’t be selfish and respect the music, and people playing it.
Also, djm said that being advanced means playing fast. Well, the best players I’ve met in my life, and the best music, wasnt played fast. I end up playing fast a lot becaue it seems to be the norm in many places, but I much prefer being around musicians who will take their time, will try to be musical and play with a tight phrasing, instead of just rushing the tunes.
Az, I don’t mean fast as in rushing. I mean faster than the less competent players (like me) can manage.
A mixed session can easily afford to slow down for the newer players once in a while, but many session players in my experience seem to take great offense at slowing down even for one tune.
If there is a choice of a slow/beginners session I would go to that, especially if one or two more experienced players were to get off their high horses long enough to help, but if there is only one session, where else can one go?
You would be surprised, very surprised at how slow some very good players will play. This summer a bunch of Chiffers and I were in Miltown Malbay, Ireland, and I got a recording of Peter Laban and his concertina friend and few others playing a few tunes in a dance. One fo the tune I recorded is the reel “Silver Spire”. For a while I didnt really pay attention to the tune, 'cause I had other stuff to learn, and always assumed it was a jig. I sat down one day and located the tune, and realized it was in fact a very well played reel, played slowly but with great style.
Anyway, just a thought, I know this isnt what you’re trying to say and I get your point, but just remember that playing faster really doesnt mean being better. It’s always good to know that you can play fast and still play allright. If I had a Porsche, I’d be the type of guy who’d go at 50km/hour just to let people know I could go faster but I don’t. Now, on the whistle, I do play too fast sometimes (a lot).
As you’re saying, if you’re stucked with one session, your choice is limited. Just move somewhere else!
Grasshopper, the river does not seek the horse. You need to get in touch with these players & try to make nice. You’ll only get better by playing with people who are better than you.
IMHO, in the face of limited resources, people get nutty. Having a single session in town where beginners and more advanced players are just supposed to “get along” is like having a bowling league without handicaps where you expect those who bowl 85 are supposed to happily get along with those who average 240. Ain’t gonna happen. Nobody has fun.
While not necessarily true for all players, some will take a request to slow down as the equivalent of “could you please throw a couple of gutter balls or miss that spare so we won’t feel so unhappy that we can’t bowl 240 like you”. Not saying its right, but I can see how some people aren’t going to take kindly to that request. They’re out to have fun too, they aren’t there to teach, and have every right to say “do your practicing at home, and come back when you can bowl 240 like the rest of us…”
Best to start another session that is oriented towards learning and recruit a session leader who understands that these newer players are the people that he/she is going to be playing with in in the pub sessions in 2-5 years…
We had the same situation here in San Diego many years ago. There was only one session. Lots of politics and disagreements. Now there are 4, soon to be 6, and everyone has a place to play. No more fighting, but it hasn’t changed people’s attitudes about “those nice people at the XXX session vs. those mean people at the YYY session”. What matters is that everyone has a place they can go and have a good time.
That’s funny, we joked the other night that we should have a session at the local strip club after a couple of girls from one of the popular clubs came through the pub handing out advertising cards…
I think lotsa musicians don’t have a clue about phrasing. They will try to sound like Danu or Lunasa, with no style of their own, rushing tunes, etc.
