What is the deal with CCE?

Trad Irish Music
1

What is the deal with CCE? I had just read a long thread of Irtrad-L and it was talking about reforming CCE and how detrimental CCE is to regional styles and etc. I would like to know more about this organisation and the effects it has on the music in general.

Also, does CCE recognise/respect masters of the music who are non-technical and non-flashy like Jack Coen, Padraig O’Keefe and Micho Russell? If they do, (like most people playing Irtrad music) how do they at the same time push for pure technicality, impose rules and ideas on how people should play the music in fleadhs and stuff? The old masters of the music cited above don’t even seem to meet CCE’s playing requirements. How do the the two ideas of pushing for more technicality, discriminating against some styles and recognising the great non-technical players meet? (or are these players not recognised as good players at all?)

2

Bill Ochs told me last week in an e-mail he was present at competition durign the early seventies where a young player was awarded less points because of the use of double stops on the fiddle which was considered ‘non traditional’. Bill’s comment was prompted by a tape I had juist sent him of Mrs Ellen Galvin from Moyasta Co Clare who used double stops throughout. Very challenging material ot listen to. Bill asked the question how the adjudicator would have reacted to that.

3

I don’t think you can paint a broad-brush picture of Comhaltas as being a “good” or “bad” influence on Irish music: it’s too varied. In my admittedly limited experience with CCE, each branch tends to have its own style, individual judges have their own preferences, and there’s not quite as much uniformity across Comhaltas as its detractors would have you believe.

That said, at the feiseanna I’ve attended I’ve noticed an identifiably “Comhaltas style” of playing. It’s the art school effect: some art schools exert too strong an influence on individual styles, so that when you look at the work of their students you can tell immediately where they attended school. But there are plenty of great artists who never go to art school.

If competition is your thing, there’s not much avoiding Comhaltas. But if you’re not interested in competition, or if like me you’re repelled by the whole idea of music as a competitive sport, you can just ignore Comhaltas and treat that whole world as a parallel universe. There are many great traditional Irish musicians who have never competed or who don’t participate in CCE events except for playing in the sessions at conventions.

CCE has shown respect in the past for a variety of styles from the old masters, having released some brilliant recordings such as Ceol an Clair (THE definitive recording of Clare fiddle masters such as Junior Crehan, Bobby Casey, John Kelly, Patrick Kelly, Joe Ryan).

4

Whenever the discussion of Irish Traditional Music comes up it is easy to fall iinto heated discussions of:
What is Irish Traditional Music
How is it learned and what is the “best” way of learning?
How is it played
Who plays it - and who decides the merit of the player
How traditional is Traditional
Is Irish Traditional Music a living tradition and so open to changes in how it is played or is it a static tradition like “classical” music with specific required performance practices.
As performers of Irish Trad. Music, how do we respect the parameters of the Tradition but still make it fresh and alive
Etc…etc…etc…
Everyone has their own ideas on this topic and I believe it is important to
form your own opinion based on reliable information rather than go by just accepting other peoples opinions or the anecdotal information found on boards such as this. As far as CCE is concerned - there is a lot of misinformation out there regarding the purpose, role, responsibilities and influence of CCE on Irish Traditional Music. And don’t forget that CCE was and still is made up largely of volunteers who have a great love and respect for the music. It is unfair to trash CCE without actually finding out exactly who & what they are and what they mean to Irish Traditional Music. That being said, nobody and no organization is perfect. So my suggestion is, go to the source and find out - You will find good information on both sides of the equation - it is quite enlightening.

5

Little has been said on this forum about Senator Labhras’ plans to monopolise the funding for traditional music under the arts bill. This plan was vehemently opposed by a very prominent part of the traditional music community in Ireland, and may I add rightfully so. The minister withdrew the amendment to the Arts Bill for the time being but there is a great deal of worry about CCE’s agenda in this respect, an agenda which is potentially very harmful to the pluriformity of traditional music in Ireland.

6

http://www.cmc.ie/articles/article595.html

The above link will give some information on this topic for anyone interested in learning more about the political discussions on Traditional music in Ireland. As I said, in my opinion it is not black & white, and anyone interested should explore all sides of the issue.
Peter, I understand what you are saying, but I think that people also have to look at the good that CCE has done and is trying to do with regards to Traditional Music especially in education.
I have copied the following (sorry for the length, but skip it if you are not interested!) for interest sake:

CCE Meeting:
Chairman Frank Kennedy and Delegate John Pendergast were pleased to represent North America at the 8-9 March 03 Ard Chomhairle meetings. Here are some of the highlights from the trip:

  1. SEAMUS DE BRUN (RIP).
    Comhaltas Trustee Seamus de Brun passed away on 5 March 03 and was buried on 8 March 03. He was 90 years of age. Seamus was a great friend of North America, always welcoming the CCE members who travelled to Ireland for meetings. He was CCE Uachtaran when the first concert tour came to North America in 1972, and travelled with the group. He was also an educator, and former member of Seanad Eireann. We and other members of the Ard Chomhairle attended the funeral in Castlerea, County Roscommon and our Director General Sen. O’Murchu, gave the grave side oration. Seamus was the 2002 honoree at the Tionol Leo Rowsome, which was a major article in the 2002/4 issue of Treoir.

The Province sent flowers and a mass card to:
Family of Seamus de Brun
“Aisling”
Knockroe
Castlerea, County Roscommon
Ireland

  1. CONCERT TOURS. Get your venue info in soonest.
    a. The British Tour was from the 8th to the 22nd February. There were 15 venues. Head Office received very positive reports back from the Tour and thanked the Coordinator Ann Kelly and the Council of Britain; the Manager Billy Boylan; Producers, artistes, venues and sponsors (Bord FaiIte and Irish Ferries).

b. The Irish Concert Tour will be from the 11th to the 25th October and venues are now being sourced.

c. The North American Tour will be held in October and venues are currently being solicited by coordinator Ira Goldman. We need to have venues sorted out by Convention time. Contact Ira by E-mail at <concerttour@ccenorthamerica.org>

d. Head Office intends to have discussions with a number of people who have Tour experience with a view to maximizing the potential of one of the longest running and most successful components of the Comhatas program. If you have meaningful suggestions please forward them to Ira and me.

  1. TRADITIONAL MUSIC EXAMS. They are Coming…
    After four years of being referred to as the RIAM exams, the title for examinations in Irish Traditional Music has now changed to Scrudu Ceol Tire (SCT). This has been introduced as a result of recent changes in the administration of the examinations.

The Irish Traditional Music examinations were first introduced in 1999 and were run jointly by the RIAM and Comhaltas. Over 5,000 candidates in Ireland and Britian have taken the examination in the last four years and the consensus has been that the project has been an unqualified success.

The examinations were run on the basis where the RIAM handled all administrative aspects (e.g. candidate registration, selection of venues, etc.) while Comhaltas was responsible for all musical matters including standards (e.g. syllabus, selection of examiners, etc.). Due to administrative difficulties it has been agreed that from now on Comhaltas will assume responsibility for all aspects of the Traditional Examinations.


It must be stressed that the SCT examinations will continue unchanged and will use the existing syllabus and structures under the direction of Stiu’rthoir; Micheal O’hEidhin and the Examination Board. The Examination Board is made up of highly respected exponents in the traditional music field, all of whom served on the original Syllabus Committee responsible for setting up and introducing the examinations. Members of the Board are as follows:-
Dr. Antoin MacGabhann, Dr. Tomas 0’ Canainn, Seamus Mac Mathuna, Mairtin de Paor, Micheal 0’ Briain, Micheal 0’ hAlmhain, Mary Nugent and Kathleen Nesbitt.

  1. HEAD OFFICE STAFF. Some key changes.
    a. Kit Hodge who has served as Runai ’ Olfige with Comhaltas for 34 years, has stepped down from her post. Kit’s work with Comhaltas has been legendary. She had an excellent rapport with everyone displaying courtesy and kindness to all. Kit will continue to be a familiar figure at the Cultu’rlann where we will still have the benefit of her expertise and knowledge.

b. Jim McAllister has joined the staff for a six-month period. Jim is Cathaoirleach of Craobh Chluain Tarbh. He will be working the SCT music exams among others.

  1. MEITHEAL New initiatives for the future of CCE.

a. A draft blue print for future development in Comhaltas, called the Action Plan 2003-2007, was prepared and was discussed by the Ardchomhairle. It has a strong education element. Our Provincial Chairman raised the issue of integrating the diaspora into the the Action Plan at the Ard Chomhairle meeting and, together with subsequent discussions with the main author of the Plan, Mr. Maurice Mullen, it has been agreed that North America will be integrated into that plan. Revisions and finalization are currently underway. We’ll forward it on when it is finalized.

b. The new Comhaltas weekly TV program on the internet is nearly ready. Produced by Willie Fogarty, it provides an unique worldwide PR vehicle for the movement. The success of this new ambitious venture depends on the number of people who sign up for it. We exhort as many as possible not to miss this unique opportunity. In addition to the varied content, subscribers may download each weekly program and build up their own personal archives. We will send you an E-mail on the mechanics when the program is ready; probably by 30 March 03. http://www.comhaltaslive.ie

c. The traditional arts information pack for schools is being developed by Attracta Brady.

d. A joint Ardchomhairle/Meitheal meeting was held on the 9th March. This was followed in the afternoon by a forum with representatives of various Irish language organizations. The objective of the forum with the language organizations was to initiate discussions with the intention of establishing partnerships based on our common goals, and to find items and ways where all could cooperate. The meetings were frank and each group plans to return to their organization and assess how we can work together in the future.

e. The PRO Seminar (headed up by Donncha 0’ Muineachain) on 18 January in Dublin was a huge success. Our North American PRO, Helen Gannon, was in attendance. The Seminar was conducted by Martin Gaffney, a professional PR consultant. A similar Seminar is now planned for Britain on the 14th June. It is intended to form a Meitheal group for Britain on this day. We’re working with Head Office to find a way to bring Mr. Gaffney to North America so we too can give impetus to this key function. The aim is to have Mr. Gaffney provide the basics for each Province and the Province then follow up with each unit.

  1. ARTS BILL. Minister & CCE try to sort out a plan.
    A delegation from. Comhaltas met Minister John O’Donoghue on the 6th March. Also present was the Secretary General of the Department, other officials and the Minister’s Advisor.

The Comhaltas delegation consisted of Sen. Labhras’ Murchu’, Daithi’ O’ hOgain, Attracta Brady, Seamus MacGabhann, Brian Prior arid Jim McAllister.

Comhaltas pointed out that:
(a) at this stage, Section 21 of the Arts Bill which deals with separate funding for the traditional arts, was contaminated beyond reprieve.
(b) there could be no trust between Cornhaltas and the Arts Council;
(c)Comhaltas would favor a direct relationship with the Department.

The Minister stated that
(a) The Arts Council had no coherent policy on the traditional arts which he would correct;
(b) the level of funding by the Arts Council to traditional arts was unacceptable;
(c) he acknowledged the lack of trust between Comhaltas and the Arts Council which he would work to correct; (
d) Section 5 of the Bill gave him power to give a direction to the Arts Council.

Comhaltas gave the Minister a copy of our draft five year Action Plan 2003-2007, and requested that he and his officials would study same. The Minister undertook to do this and revert to CCE on the matter. The meeting was frank, firm and friendly.

  1. BOSTON 2003. Be there!
    The North American Convention; which will be held on the 24th- 27th April; promises to be a huge success.

There will be a high powered representation from the Irish Government: Minister Eamon 0’ Cuiv, T.D.; the Secretary-General of the Department; together with a PR official. To meet the Minister’s schedule there will be an Irish Language Workshop on Friday 25 April at 5:30 PM. If you planned to attend a language workshop, you are invited to be there on Friday evening to meet the Minister.


Arrangements have been made for Micheal 0’ hEidhin to attend to discuss in detail the SCT traditional music examinations for students in North America. The day and time for this presentation is to be announced.


Paddy Ryan has been invited to present details on the TTCT teachers course held each July at Head Office. Paddy will also provide details on the Adjudicator Training course we are again scheduling for this year in late October 2003.


An invitation has been extended to RTE’s Ceili House producer Peter Brown and we are attempting to finalize those arrangements.


And, keep your smiles going as Willie Fogarty will attend to film material for the new CCE live internet program.

  1. YOUTH OFFICER. Now authorized. Each unit should plan to elect one.

Qifigigh na nog or Youth Officer was approved by Congress last year and took effect on 1 January. Guidelines for Olfigigh na nOg will be developed on an organic basis. In general, the office was created to help ensure the views of younger members of CCE are available at all levels. Your unit Youth Officer should be between the ages of 16-25 as of 1 January of the term year.

The position of voting rights of Oifigigh na nOg in units was raised and the Ard Chomhairle concluded that it was logical that the Oifigeach na nOg would have voting rights in the relevant unit. The Ard Chomhairle also recommended that a report from the Oifigeach na nOg should be on the agenda for each meeting.

We’ll have more on the Youth Officer at Convention.

  1. TREOIR. The next issue will be available in the coming weeks.

TREOIR is published quarterly in the last month of the quarter.

All branch updates for the March issue should be sent to the North American Administrator soonest; or if you are using the automated membership system, all you have to do is tell the administrator that fact. Either way Sharleen is at <admin@ccenorthamerica.org>.

7

Well, you know how i feel about them but there’s no point in going into all that.

The CCE strategy on musical education is not by far un controversial, again a lot of people will argue they are trying to monopolise the field. Loads of institutions are involved in all sorts of programs and examinations and all that, I don’t know the finer detail, it is worth keeping an eye out for the upcoming Crossroads conference which will deal with aspects of traditional music and education.

The concert tours. Recently one local girl went on one of the tours but really if you see the waist coats the long velvet dresses and the whole tourist board atmosphere that surrounds it I feel like running. Same for the tv programs, I see these fleadh programs Breda Smyth and Pat Butler do and I get I start wondering whuy start liking Irish music in the first place.

I said it before, there are loads of good people in it at grassroots level but in general I don’t care for the brand of Irish music they are advocating [or some would say, are trying to impose on the musical community].

8

Kinda like a left handed monkey-wrench? :confused:

9

What’s wrong with subtly racist vaudevillian tripe? :smiley:

10

:laughing:

Recently I played at a dance program where part of it was performed in competition outfits…I found myself in a state of unease over the same question.

11

[quote="Pat Cannady
What’s wrong with subtly racist vaudevillian tripe? :smiley:[/quote]

Now there you have me trying to do the right thing consider other people’s feelings and opinions and not speaking my mind and now you get started.

12

I just hope you got a laugh out of it, Peter. :wink:

13

I love whoever wrote those minutes. Item 6 is the bombshell. “Contaminated beyond reprieve.” :laughing:

Looks like Peter’s initial comment was dead on.

14

Academization…what a loaded cannon. The jazz world has been struggling with this for a long time also…