What a wonderful Funeral us Americans can put on

The following is an unabashed rant. Procced at your own risk.

I do not understand the concept of extravagant public mourning, be it Reagan, or Princess Di, or anyone else.

I understand grief well enough when death strikes among one’s family or friends. I wish I didn’t understand it quite so well.

What I do not understand is why thousands of people would spend money on airfares or drive for hours to stand in line for more hours in order to spend fifteen seconds walking past the closed casket of someone they didn’t even know.

And I don’t understand why every time a celebrity dies you get see the building of impromptu flower shrines, even in places thousands of miles removed from that person or anything associated with them.

And I don’t understand things like giant cards being signed in Illinois for a death a thousand miles away.

Mabe its just the old curmudgeon in me, but I simply don’t comprehend the concept of elaborate personal grief for someone you don’t even know and who wouldn’t have known YOU from a bug on the wall.

And while I’m in rant mode, the populist in me can’t understand how people could not be angered when, after they spent their hours in a hot summer line waiting for their fiteen second fly-by, a parade of “their betters” is ushered around them to spend their own minutes at the casket publicly mourning for the TV cameras. I can’t help but think it denotes a feeling of inferiority by some folks who would love to see the return of a hereditary aristocracy that would put the misbegotten commoners in their proper place.

: Rant off:

clever

Anyone else catch the fast shot of Bill Clinton at the DC service. His eyes closed and head lulled back. Hilary looked embarassed. You really had to feel sorry for her!

Oh boy if faces were statements then there would litigation in Washington for decades …

Yes, she can’t bear to see him praying.

I’m just curious as to how they had no cell phones go off, or car alarms blare from all the canon shots and fighter fly-overs.

All in all, I found nothing to question as to how much pomp there was. I thought the services were beautiful, and they taught many of us a little about American traditions.

Anyone notice that Arnold did not sing the National Anthem?..probably didn’t know the words :blush:

JP

This is extremely common–cherished beliefs not shared. Many people (the stereotype is males that work in professions such as engineering, medicine, or computers) expect others to share their cherished beliefs and are amazed, stunned and disappointed when they don’t. The ugliest forms of this are Internet flame wars where no one changes their mind, tempers are raised, and lives shortened and made less pleasant.

What the public outpouring of emotion shows is that Reagan touched many lives. The cliche that comes to mind is six-degrees of separation, meaning that virtually everyone is connected to everyone else on the planet after going through six people. It is a SMALL PLANET when you think of it in those terms. Public figures do touch many lives, whether the person is a politician, a musician, an artist, an author.

I believe that public grieving and public ceremony is a necessary and healthy way for people to honor those that have touched their lives, and to move forward. Those that can not or do not choose to participate are of course welcome to opt out. That is sometimes the case with immediate family or friends.

I believe that America is a place where more ritual not less would be a good thing. There is a timelessness to some rituals. Many young people watching the Reagan funeral on TV will remember it for the rest of their lives, just as I have memories of some public funerals from my youth. Few events have that kind of power, that kind of magic, that kind of majesty.

  • Bill

I can’t really picture Arnold singing anything , Can you imagine what it would be like to have Arnold sing “Happy Birthday”? :laughing:

There also was a shot of Prince Charles looking like he was nodding off.

(CSPAN reran the funeral today. They’ll probably be showing it again if anybody didn’t see it and wants to).

I think I did hear a car alarm at one point. Can’t remember when. I am surprised about the cell phones, too, since it seems no matter how many times people are reminded to turn them off someone doesn’t. Maybe there were enough soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen with guns (even ceremonial ones) that people took the admonishment to turn off the cell phones seriously. :slight_smile:

Beth

I’m kinda with Chuck Clark on this one. I respect and empathize with the personal grief experienced by family and close friends of RR…but I truly did not feel a need to watch it on tv, or personally grieve…perhaps in part because the death followed a long illness, and he was a very old person, and perhaps because I didn’t know him.

I agree with Bill Chin, especially about needing MORE ritual, not less. To argue against a huge public funeral (including its cost) really is to question its value of engendering nationalism and patriotism, probably because one is uncomfortable with those concepts.

Do we need to feel unified as Americans? If so, what are the ways that will maintain it? A grand ceremonious memorial to a popular, two-term president seems appropriate to me. There are really only a few outlets that create this: ticker tape parades, inaugurations and perhaps large-scale permanent monuments, besides state funerals. FWIW, I will probably wince when Clinton gets similar treatment, if I live so long to see it.

The President was celebrated in the Capitol and out West, in an ultra-symbolic way. As sick as I was by the coverage, I was stunned by the effect of our setting West Coast sun on the hilltop ceremony. I only saw a small part of it but that a heroic departure that resonated deeply in my Californian (and to the cynical, perhaps Hollywood) heart. Our left-leaning paper published a wonderful full page photo of him on his white horse today. Somebody appreciates and wants a hero, I guess, even yet.

I know that some of the arguments against it are more personal, that this was more voyeuristic than idealistic and I can see that line of thought, too.

I felt that the coverage of the Princess Diana car accident remains the single-most overhyped event of my lifetime relative to its importance, that is.

But back to the original point, many post-Vietnam thinkers are so opposed to nationalism, distrustful of patriotism and suspicious of military ceremony (some even “loathe the military”), that this public outpouring causes discomfort. Having once had those inklings, I can relate.

I have been surprised and even suspicious at the major networks coverage of this event. I feel that they went so far over the top that a backlash and resentment was inevitable. And to an extent, here it is on the Chiffboard. I can barely believe that the irony-based talking heads of the media have contributed to possible hagiography and a general rehabilitation of the President (having heard them interviewed on other topics) that they probably loathed.

There were a lot of people who intensely disliked everything Mr. Reagan stood for in this country, right down to his mannerisms and delivery, especially here in California. To repeat myself, I have been surprised at how marginalized his detractors have been presented in the media.

But as a final thought I have to say that the presence of so many world leaders, especially Gorbachev, has to shake to the core the convictions of so many Reagan detractors. Nobody made him come, though apparently Putin asked him to represent Russia. I think that these leaders understanding of world affairs and maybe even their personal interactions with the man made them feel compelled to pay respects. That was noble indeed, especially if you caught any of Gorby’s actual remarks to the press, etc. He did not need to say the things he did.

And the purposeful rejection by Chirac? That speaks clearly, too. Oh yes, and who can forget Fidel Castro’s pronouncement that Reagan “should never have been born?” Indeed.

This is one federal person who thoroughly enjoyed my “Regan day”. :smiley:

A few months back, Illinois lost perhaps its last great statesman, Paul Simon, who I respected and admired and even knew personally in a very small way, having been introduced to him once or twice in the line of business. I was even somewhat saddened that with his passing passed an era of integrity and civility in State politics that we seem unlikely to ever see again.

But I was NOT grief-stricken, not impelled to publicly keen or rend my garments or join the procession by his coffin. I seriously wonder at someone who with the same very limited acquaintance with him that I had who would have felt compelled to such extravagant excesses.

In 1963, I was a great admirer of JFK, and saddened at his passing - but again not much interested in joining the public wake.

To address Weeks’ comments, in the last week, I’ve not only watched the spectacle but also listened as Reagan detractors were attacked as unAmerican, unpatriotic and downright cockroach-like. I’ve watched as fervent followers have proposed putting his name and mug on everything from the ten dollar bill to Mount Rushmore. This naming and branding frenzy began as soon as he left the White House. Need I remind anyone that no other living ex-president ever had an aircraft carrier named for him"? All this for a president who was mediocre at best and controversial throughout.

What has struck me about the whole thing is that RR didn’t have a political following so much as a religious cult! Badmouthing the pope isn’t likely to get you attacked nearly as fast as mildly criticizing Saint Gipper. I honestly expect that before November rolls around we’ll see Republican campaign posters with a giant, semi-trasparent, glowing and smiling “Dutch” with his hand on the shoulder of whatever candidate(s) the poster endorses.

And I still don’t understand the concept of extravagant public grief for a stranger - no matter WHO it was!

I agree. It seemed like the cable news networks were engaged in some sort of show-down, over who could come across as the most patriotic. As if consumers were keeping track of the exact number of hours of Reagan programming on each channel, and would dump MSNBC for Fox if MSNBC blinked first.

But what really surprised me is that people were still criticizing the media for not being heartfelt enough in their coverage. Glenn McCoy published a political cartoon portraying Dan Rather, Tom Brokaw and Peter Jennings as impatient, yawning and checking their watches at the funeral while a “real” American, in military uniform, stood reverently.

That was just ridiculous. The TV media’s contribution to this event was nothing short of phenomenal. They have Dan, Tom and Peter commentating during a funeral broadcast live nationwide, all across the TV dial. And previously, the days of valuable airtime spent on retrospectives—and thus, on a single story—was probably a substantial sacrifice in ratings and ad revenue. Here is someone complaining that they didn’t cry enough or some such crap.

Caj

post time! http://www.thestranger.com/2004-06-10/grab_bag.html

I have read this thread now on and off for a week maybe. And am once again baffled by the total difference in opinions aired here as compared to the ones I am familiar with. Jim Stone referred somewhere to the fact that the perception of the reagan presidency was ver ydifferent i nEurope. He couldn’t have been more right.

Thinking of the of the Reagan years the image that comes to my mind is this one:

My recollection is that of himself and Thatcher signifying a social ethos that was so contrary to everything around us for it’s lack of compassion. I remember millions of Europeans going out on the streets in protest against the acceleration of the arms race he set in motion, saying ‘keep your cruise missiles, we don’t want them’.
I remember the fear [and jokes] of a man clearly in the first stages of Alzheimers sitting on the launch codes. There was a sigh of relief when he left office. And now it’s ‘Hero status’? it’s beyond me.

amen, peter.

Oleo, as per your request, I will not communicate with you via PM, since you seem to think it constitutes some form of harassment. However, the things said in PM have a reason for being in PM, and I am not going to waste space on the open forum with it. Therefore, I have nothing else to say.

Don’t even try to understand, Peter. This must be an american thing.

And East Timor - Oil and Gas for Australia - I guess we should be nice haw?

Well I ain’t bein nice today so here - while Muslim Indonesia did its ethnic cleansing of 300 000 East Timorese Catholics Reagan and Co were looking the other way AND supplying the fascists with arms -

Now where at the time was there ethnic cleansing of Catholics ? Try N Ireland by Ronnie’s own church -Presbyterians - and how about this - Chile by S Americas Pol Pot - 'nether Jock…

sheesh!