Was O'Carolan's Dream the source for Stairway to Heaven?

Whistle
21

I don’t know if I ever missed this thread, or dismissed it, it’s been so long. But now that new member dedindi (Welcome, BTW) has (re-)brought it to my attention, I’ll put my 2 farthings in:

Only the first five notes of Carolan’s Dream have anything even remotely in common with Stairway to Heaven. Borrowing? Sure, maybe, could be … I guess. Influence? For an entire, otherwise completely unrelated song? Now we’re straying into the woods. The progression is too miniscule, and not really unique at all, so thus far all we have is idle conjecture over what might be sheer coincidence. Has anyone from Led Zep said anything about it? Are they even aware that this is an internet topic? I’d like to hear it from the horse’s mouth. That should clear things up. If it’s true, I’d commend them for their taste in sources, but the suggestion that borrowing an unremarkable five-note progression is plagiarism…? Literally, I’m laughing out loud as I type this.

O’Carolan would probably be secretly flattered.

22

thanks for welcome, Nanohedron!

I personally believe that making your own variation is useful for both the musician and the piece.
even the great Bach varied other composers works.

23

Have people heard Millish’s version of Stairway to Heaven? (Link probably won’t work outside the US, sorry!) Lots of (very non-trad!) nice low whistle and pipes.

24

Indeed. It’s been put in various ways, but as an artist friend of mine always used to say (with a smirk), “Art is thievery.” That was in the early 1970s, and he was the first person I ever knew to paint scary clowns. South Dakota will do that to you. There being no internet at the time, I have no idea what bandwagon he was on.

Some of you may know of an old popular American song from 1923, Yes! We Have No Bananas. The chorus lyrics between the first two and last two lines often change from version to version, but here’s one just to get you going:

Yes, we have no bananas
We have no bananas today.
We’ve string beans, and onions
Cabbages, and scallions,
And all sorts of fruit and … Say!
We have an old fashioned tomato
A Long Island potato
But yes, we have no bananas.
We have no bananas today.

And here’s a recorded version for your delectation and listening pleasure (you’ll notice this chorus has slightly different lyrics from the above):

Anyway, back in the day it was argued that the entire chorus melody was plagiarized (with the sole exception, ironically, of the 3-note phrase for “bananas”) from a host of cobbled-together melodies such as the Hallelujah Chorus, My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean, I Dreamt I Dwelt in Marble Halls, Aunt Dinah’s Quilting Party, and An Old-Fashioned Garden, because you could sing the chorus like this:

Hallelujah, Bananas!
Oh, bring back my Bonnie to me
I dreamt that I dwelt
In marble halls—
The kind that you seldom see
I was seeing Nellie home
To an old-fashioned garden: but,
Hallelujah, Bananas!
Oh, bring back my Bonnie to me!

… Bleh. Whatever. I once heard a version that went, “We’ve melons and squashes that taste like galoshes…”. I liked that. :slight_smile:

And jazzy on top of it, too. :boggle:

Nicely done.

25

There are only so many notes to choose from, so you are bound to get some of them in the same order as another tune eventually. :laughing:

26

Well, stealing from one source is plagiarism, stealing from many is research…

For your viewing and listening pleasure, here’s the Pachelbel Rant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM

27

never been hear that song.
thanks for sharing, you make me smile a lot =)

28

I’ll remember that one. Here’s a corollary: Try something once and you’re a philosopher; try it twice and you’re a pervert.

You know, I couldn’t finish that. It started escalating pretty fast, and I just was’t ready for the meltdown to come.

29

Sorry, I have no idea what you mean. I think it’s hilarious, until the end.

I do wonder sometimes, however, what the ghost of poor Mr. Pachelbel thinks about his compositional career being reduced to one single piece. Of course, at least that one piece is everywhere in a close to original version (or at least in lots of films), whereas other composers are practically forgotten altogether…

30

I’m sure it is. I confess I sometimes get this very strong aversion response when witnessing the suffering and anguish of others, real or put-on. It’s a bit embarrassing, really. I need to grow a thicker skin.

I’ll check it out later. :slight_smile:


Okay, I watched it - I am nothing if not good for my word. You're right, it is pretty funny. AND insightful. :slight_smile:
31

Was O’Carolan’s Dream the source for Stairway to Heaven?

Was King Of The Fairies the source for El Condor Pasa? They’re even in the same key…

32

Or was The Doors ‘Feast of freinds’ inspired by Albinonis adagio

33

Certainly the list of musical quotes in music old and new is a long one, including a quote of Rachmaninoff in ‘Never Gonna Fall in Love Again’, some Chopin in ‘Could it be Magic’ and bit of Beethoven in ‘Midnight Blue’. So hey, why not such an inspiration for Stairway to Heaven?

34

Thanks for the Millish link. I enjoyed that. Kinda reminded me of Fluke and Jethro Tull a bit.

=brett

35

Anyone here tinnitus?