I find that sometimes it sounds cleaner to use the C-nat key instead of cross-fingering in the first octave. For example the first B-Cnat-B triplet (regular triplet, not ornament) in “Rights of Man” is much easier and cleaner when using the key instead of the cross fingering. The flute players do this stuff all the time, but I have the impression that it should not be done on UP. Am I starting a bad habit here? wadda ya tink?
In many cases, triplets are played with C#, even if Cnat is indicated. It’s play so quickly that it’s not really obvious. I’ve heard flute players call it ‘colouring the C’.
What PJ says is correct for fast triplets, but if you find your Cnat obtained by cross fingering sounds a bit off, you may have to play with your fingering on the bottom hand a bit. Different chanter/reed combinations require different fingering to get the Cnat to sound correct. e.g. try opening just the G, or G+F#, or just the F#, or F#+E, or F#+E+Eb. Also play around with the lower hand fingering to get the Cnat to sound correct when playing off the knee.
djm
Yes, I do that sometimes as well. Or roll the finger just a tad to get a half hole.
Another tune I like to hit the c-nat key with is Patsy Geary’s, in the A part.
I am talking about non-ornament notes. My cross-fingered c-nat is just fine, (in tune, etc), but sometimes it just is easier and sounds smoother to use the key. Is this sloppy piping?
No, not if that is the way you intended the note to sound. But you are denying yourself the opportunity to slide up to the Cnat, or down from the Cnat. Learning to finger the notes gives you more options.
djm
Some time back, when shopping for pipes, I contacted Jim Daily. One of my questions was how many blocks were on his chanter - i.e. how many keys could be added. His reply was that keys were not necessary on a chanter as all notes could be cross fingered.
Is this so? If yes, how practical is it to cross finger all notes, particularly when playing slow tunes?
Cnat in the 2nd 8ve is not available by cross fingering or half holing. Some say that this is absolutely the only key you need. I guess it depends on how accurate you can be half holing when playing at speed. A key gives you a much more accurate note. Personally, I like four keys: Fnat, G#, A#, Cnat. There are not many tunes that need some of these notes, but I find the keys help, especially in the 2nd 8ve. Like so many things in piping, it comes down to person preference. I do not believe you can declare much of anything is absolutely correct. There is always someone with another way, or a different preference.
djm
djm is right there Tom. Try to get the Cnat fingering down for The Right’s of Man, that’s a hornpipe so the triplet should be nice and slow.
Some of the old players [and some of the current ones too] used the Cnat key as a gracenote within legatto runs. I think the Doran’s did this. Listen to Eoin O’Riabhaigh’s CD “Handed Down”… he does this on The Lark On The Strand to great effect. I’d say Mr. P. Keenan would also do such things.
Bye now,
PD.
Patsy Touhey used the key for C nat, according to his own “Hints for Amateur Pipers.” Actually a lot of the time he’d just play a C#, for the sake of the staccato. Colclough’s tutor from the 1840s says to use the keys for Cnat and C# - for the latter, employing the key used for D in the third octave.
I’ve some old video of Paddy Keenan where you can see him using the key for the CBA legato triplet in Colonel Fraser.
Really? I’ve been beating myself up over not being able to play that triplet as cleanly as Keenan. I guess that just goes to show one can go too far the other way in avoiding using the keys even though it might be the better choice. I’ll have to try that one tonight. Thanks very much for that, Kev.
djm
Touhey used the C key cos the crossfingering on Taylor chanters is very sharp. This is because the C# is in tune and not flat like a lot of chanters.
Listen to Johnny Doran play Rakish Paddy. He uses the key for most of those long C’s in the first part.
It is a good idea not to become dependant on the key either. Practise the cross fingering too.
But you are denying yourself the opportunity to slide up to the Cnat, or down from the Cnat.
Not really so,
You can slide if you open the key slowley.
I always believe the trick with pipes is to try as many different ways to do things as you can.
Eventually you will settle on whats comfortable to do and what you believe sounds nice. The combination of all these things will result in your own unique style.
Tommy
What part of the tune is that triplet used? The fourth part?
I use the key in the first octave with liberal abandon. about the only tune i don’t use it for is A Nation Once Again, and possibly one arrangement of the Minstrel Boy.
the fingerings i had worked out (some better than others) minimizing inaccurate half holeing for my first, unkeyed chanter is
I played Touhey’s chanter and ofcourse I checked: it is very well capable of a very nice cross fingered C natural. 
(i have played several Taylor chanters that would not, or very reluctantly, give a C nat but the Touhey chanter didn’t mind at all. To my surprise I admit although Clancy could bend the C on his Taylor chanter nicely into shape)
I would guess it’s the first part where the legato triplets can go
dcB cBA
at the beginning of the first bar and at repeats of that phrase later on.
The second c would be the one played with the key.
As wolvy mentions Patsy Geary’s earlier, when Keenan plays it on one of the Bothy band records, the tone of the cnat (when he plays BcnatB at the beginning of the second bar) indicates it is played with the key.
I find a combination of the tone (timbre) and fluidity of the keyed cnat tends to give it away.
My advice (FWIW) would be if you are conciously using the cnat key in the first octave for it’s musical effect then go for it. If you are using it to make the note easier to play then strongly consider going back to the cross fingered note.
David
I’m not sure we’re talking about the same triplets, then. In Keenan’s version on his first solo LP, he plays these two triplets one after the other in the first part very stacatto: (3.d.c.B (3.c.B.A . It is also written this way in the Armagh Pipers book. I know that a lot of people will opt out of the Cnat in these triplets and just play it as a one-finger C#, but listening to the LP you can clearly hear Keenan plays the Cnat, and it sounds much better this way. Its the second c that really needs to be a Cnat the most.
djm
djm, I’ve just had listen to Keenan’s Colonel Fraser slowed down and would now like to withdraw what I said.
It sound like the first triplet (dcB) is stacatto and then the cnatBA triplet is legato.
David
There is a recording on the ‘Gentleman pipers’ album of Willie playing “The dear Irish boy” (a slow air) where he played Cnat in the first octave using the key every time (you can hear it snaping back onto the wood from sliping his thumb off it).
I find you can get that nice slur that is sometimes desired in slow airs using the key and since I get a slightly sharp Cnat using cross fingering, while attaining a slightly flat Cnat using the key, it is good to vary which one I use in a tune for a bit of varying character.
Goldy.
It’s funny - In the 12-13 years I’ve been playing pipes, I’ve had much more use of the Fnat key. Could be because I only have an Fnat key. But I’ve never had reason to have a C key put on my chanter. One day I guess I’l get around it. And when I do, if I ever face the dilemma of whether to use the key or cross finger, I’ll just do what I feel like doing at the time.
Cheers,
DavidG
How’s that? That’s the first chanter I’ve ever heard of with only an Fnat key. Is the Cnat broken? How do you play the key on your chanter? Maybe it’s really a Cnat which would explain why it plays so sharp for an Fnat 
PD.