I am sure some of the other flute makers out there who use silver for rings and key work can sympathize. I was getting low on ring stock (16 gauge, dead soft, usually purchase 6" X 18.75" at a time, slightly over 30 ounces) and finally bit the bullet and ordered some this morning - for $1042.72. This is at a current spot price of $30.11 an ounce. Oh, for the days when Silver ranged between $4 to $5. Last year at this time I got a bunch for $14.78. Its just a bad thing that I didn’t get a bunch more then!
A more ominous sign - my silver supplier (they are big and sell lots of this and gold) wasn’t sure at first if they had this common item in stock! That has never happened before. In bullion, when the price is about to soar, it commonly disappears from the usual places you can buy it such as coin stores, etc. It may be that the jewelry suppliers are starting to experience shortages as well, even with all the silver scrap recycling underway.
I got enough to cover my current queue and then some.
The pundits I read (Jim Willie, etc.) are all saying this stuff is going to keep going up, thanks to the magnificent way central bankers everywhere are fumbling the economy. Also silver has been “undervalued” relative to gold - its price manipulated down. That is all coming apart at the seams. I raised my key and tuning slide prices in the middle of last decade anticipating this, and also to slow down the number of keyed flute orders then (I had too many). I know one other maker who is now charging a surcharge for the substantial rings used on some of his flute models.
If silver keeps going up, I’ll have to look into other materials. I really don’t like brass, although its relatively easily available. I’ve never worked with nickel silver or German silver much. Does anyone have a good suggestions how to solder nickel? Nothing I have tried works well for rings.
It’s exactly the same as for silver.
The only noticable difference is that nickel dosen’t conduct the heat as well as silver, this actually makes it easier as you can concentrate the flame near to the joint you are trying to solder rather than heating the whole piece up.
Casey, are you talking about high nickel content nickel, or even pure nickel? Or are you using the more common white brass alloys?
When I worked in the metal trades fabricating exotic metals,we worked with pure nickel and high content nickel/noble alloys. These aren’t really suitable for the smaller shop. . .we used noble gas atmospheres with TIG welding equipment to avoid oxygen contamination of the joints. If the high-nickel alloys are worked before welding/brazing they are subject to becoming brittle and cracking from oxygen contamination. Heat treating the work to a fully annealed state in an oxygen free atmosphere BEFORE brazing or welding can help the cracking but you lose any of the advantage of hardness in using nickel.
Free machining white-brass (so called German Silver) is easier to braze with high silver content bearing alloys. For lower temp work with less strength, more gap filling ability you might even fool around with the newer silver bearing/tin lead free solder now being used on home plumbing. These work at below 500 deg. f. and avoid some of the oxygen problems.
To clarify: I’m talking about nickel silver / German silver, copper/nickel alloy.
The last silver solder that I bought was called Silver Flow 55, At the moment I’m using up some odd bits of solder that I had lying around, I don’t know what it is but it works fine.
What I would use would be 65% copper, 17% zinc, 18% nickel, available from RioGrande in 16 gauge. Would want to hard solder it enough to use for rings. Soft plumbing solder (95% tin, 5% silver) is too soft for this application
I’ve always used hard solder , I’ve never had any problems.
I bought silver flow 55 (it’s a cadmium free silver solder, not hallmark standard) it’s what we used for soldering nickel silver keywork at Howarth’s oboe factory, I stuck with it when I stopped working for them. In my experience any silver solder will do the job.
I had to buy some brass here last week - shocking price! I use it for the rings on my flutes and then get a heavy nickel plating on the finished rings. The people I usually buy the relatively small amounts of brass from have stopped using it themselves because of the price, so I had to go and order a much larger quantity elsewhere because of minimum order size. I should have enough for several years.
I read this morning that mining giant Rio Tinto has almost tripled its profits this year and:
“…Copper, iron ore, tin and gold are all close to all-time records, while silver and palladium are at multi-decade highs and aluminum, nickel, platinum and coal have risen to their highest levels since the global financial crisis…”
Prices are tough here as well - I bought my first D profile ring stock for 0,79€ per gram, now it’s 2,16€ per gram. I’ll probably change my ring design to accomodate the steep price. Maybe 3mm wide rings instead of 4mm…we’ll see.
Silver solder should work just nicely for hard soldering nickel/german silver. I’ve done it a few times before. You probably want to use a solder with a rather high working temperature, mine works at 720°C. Thats a bit tough for soldering silver (if you don’t want to melt your bits down after a second of inattentiveness), but for nickel silver it works just fine.
@Kevin, I have been thinking some of the same thoughts. There seem to be lots of Gemeinhardt SSs and such on the local CraigsList. Most of the SS are going in the $400 range. All it takes is a seller who doesn’t appreciate what they have.
Lets see, if my c-foot silver flute weights a little less than 13ozs, minus 10% for 0.900 pure, so thats 11.7 oz, minus another ounce for pads, springs and such (probably less), that would estimate at 10.7 oz conservatively. At $30.10 (5am this morning) that would be $322, So maybe there is a complete wreck of a beat-up old flute, looks like the $250 or less would be attractive.
Anyway, I’m sure you’d only be able to get a tiny fraction of the spot price for material that needs this much recycling to be valuable. Probably tough to melt at home.
Remember, silver is sold in Troy Ounces (12 to the pound).
I’ve thought of that type of silver recycling myself. But unless they are stamped solid silver on the bodies, Gemeinhardts and other similar flutes are plated brass or German Silver. And the mechanisms are commonly something other than Sterling even on the Sterling bodied ones.
These “We Buy Your Gold” outfits that have sprung up everywhere are a big ripoff. I went up to one, which consisted of someone with a table at my local mall, and asked what he would give me for a 1 ounce gold coin, a Canadian Maple Leaf. He said about $660. Gold at the time was $1300. Its better to sell it on eBay and better still, to hang onto it now if you can!
Thanks for the German Silver suggestions everyone. There is a chance I might eventually revert to using it for rings. But for keys, I’ll still use silver. Working properties are important. Its nice to be able to fuse this metal, which is the first step in making touches. I usually line up 3 pieces of silver (the longest one being the length of the key, in the middle, the other two either side) against each other, then fuse this all together to rough out the touch on a key. Then there is much forging on an anvil, which requires annealing 4-5 times until the touch is roughed out. I am experienced with this in silver. I am not so sure about German Silver. Also, Rio Grande only sells sheet, and then round wire, not the square wire I require for keys.
No regrets today for getting that big sheet of ring stock. Its comforting to know I have it. The scrap will accrue in price, affording me additional ring stock in the future (Rio Grande buys it back at 66% current spot for cash, 75% for credit - I usually go for the credit and get more silver). Eventually I might raise my prices a little should silver double in price again. Or simply make the rings a little thinner and narrower.