A couple of months ago on this thread http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=61970 I asked for some advice on how to play an antique flute in tune. There was some good advice on how to adjust individual notes up and down, but nothing on what I could change that would affect the tuning as a whole. So I’ve been doing some experimenting, and checking the results with RTTA to verify that what I hear is correct. It turns out there is a change I can make which has the following effect, - pitch of upper tube notes (A, B) lowered compared to lower tube notes, and 2nd octave lowered compared to 1st octave. This is exactly what is needed and has some implications as regards tone, our understanding of the tuning issues of old flutes, and some implications for makers and players of modern “Irish” flutes.
I’ve written it up on a web page here: http://www.business.otago.ac.nz/infosci/People/Staff/groxburgh/rtta/covering.htm Actually for some people there will be nothing new here, but then they didn’t reply to my original request for help… I’m happy to make any changes or additions to what I’ve put on the web page if what I’ve written seems unclear/wrong etc.
Interesting stuff, Graeme - thanks for posting! And there was me after reading your preamble above thinking I’d read something new about a physical modification to the flute. Instead it amounts to saying “the old guys knew what they were at - and you gotta work at it”!
I’m not actually surprised by the content of what you say, though. Like you, I’ve met players who can get wonderful tone with good intonation from antique flutes that I myself struggle with by dint of superb technique. At a lower level, there’s something I find that playing certain flutes (e.g. the early C19th boxwood one in my avatar pic). When I pick it up not having used it for a while, the (my) intonation is awful - the flat D and F# are very prominent and the whole scale sounds dreadful. But I play myself in to it, find the correct embouchure focus and angle for it (not, I’m sure, the best that could be), start to generate better tone and the intonation improves dramatically, making it perfectly acceptably playable/listenable. Sure, part of that is subconscious level as-you-play memory of fine tuning modifications with embouchure and breath, but some of it is simply “blowing it into tune”.
It seems really odd to me that it would work. Not that I don’t believe you, because I tried it and it does, but I just wonder how they figured it out. Play with that embouchure and tune the flute to it? Tune the flute somehow and then find the embouchure to play in tune?
The weird thing to me is that the flute sounds so much less full and so much quieter when covering the embouchure hole, even when playing very forcefully. It does sound more brash to me, though, and maybe that carries more? Or maybe it’s an aural illusion; I know that flutes tend to sound quite a bit different nearby than they do farther away.
I’d say we value volume too much, but Nicholson et all were presumably trying (successfully) to fill a concert hall with their tone. I get the biggest tone out of my flutes by NOT covering the embouchure hole at all. Maybe, in the same concert hall scenario, to 19th century taste, that would have been considered too loud and/or too crude.
I want to look at my Drouet book again and see what he said about embouchure… I’ve forgotten. He certainly had a lot to say about the english and their defective flutes.
That one, I reckon - Nicholson probably developed his tone/embouchure, found it had certain effects on intonation and had his flutes’ scales tuned to compensate.
I’m not very good at this - I only hit it right occasionally and usually play with a less rolled in embouchure than Graeme is advocating (though far more rolled in/covered than modern classical style) for that reason - same as you William. However, from experimenting (over the years!) and also from observing what the good players who use that method do, plus taking at face value the period written descriptions of technique, the thing about that very rolled in, 1/2 to 2/3 covered position is that, if you get the focus and angle and control of the airstream just right, the sound you produce isn’t muffled or quiet. On the contrary. Also, it isn’t about playing forcefully but about utter control of a very focussed and precisely directed airstream - probably with less air being used. Getting it consistent and reliable is, of course, a matter of practice and dedication. I sure haven’t got it to that extent - I just get the occasional few moments that show it is possible, but I’m too lazy and fall back on a less severely in-turned position.
Can you share it with us if you find it, please? Of course, Rockstro amongst others had plenty to say about wishy-washy, light-weight French tone/flutes.
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I want to look at my Drouet book again and see what he said about embouchure… I’ve forgotten. He certainly had a lot to say about the English and their defective flutes.
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Can you share it with us if you find it, please? Of course, Rockstro amongst others had plenty to say about wishy-washy, light-weight French tone/flutes.
Sure. I have it at home and will try to remember to look it up.
I really wish we could hear guys like him and Nicholson. Everything we know about them is based on words, not sound evidence.
i would say that they played they would cover the embouchure hole of the flute and tune it from there. nicholson, for example, liked a reedy tone, which he achieved by pushing the flute against his face and covering much of the flute. i am betting as he was having his flutes made, they were adjusted for his blowing style. he would not have accepted a flute that was designed to be in tune (for him) without covering the embouchure hole, because it would not be as ‘reedy.’
i think the reason it sounds less full and less forceful is because you do not play like that normally. when i play, covering the embouchure makes the flute much louder, more rounded sounded, adds more tone and dynamic flexibility, and easier to play in tune.
if you do not have your throat, mouth, and face pressure set up properly, i suppose it can be difficult to play with the embouchure covered. you can play without the embouchure covered, but there is only so far you can go that way. some players go very far, and are amazing flute players, but these same players, if they covered the embouchure hole and relearned their embouchure, would be even better. for whatever reason, the loudest, quietest, harshest, and most sweet embouchure is achieved by covering the embouchure hole.
I’m not convinced, mostly because at times when well warmed up I have gotten quite a reedy tone without covering at all. Not “the perfect tone” but not too far away that it seemed like there was a limit about to be reached.
I agree that part of why it hasn’t worked for me is that I don’t normally play that way; I will give it a try for a while because I am curious. I am also very leery of the idea “there’s only one way.” There isn’t even any need to have a reedy tone for irish flute at all, it’s just fashionable because of the influence of Mr Molloy.
some players go very far, and are amazing flute players, but these same players, if they covered the embouchure hole and relearned their embouchure, would be even better. for whatever reason, the loudest, quietest, harshest, and most sweet embouchure is achieved by covering the embouchure hole.
So, my experiments this evening have shown that I can get a pretty loud, reedy, yadda tone when covering the hole 1/2-2/3rds. This is on my hammy by the way. The tuning is pretty good like that, too. Once I get the tone going that way, if I uncover the hole, I can still get the same reediness but it is fuller and warmer by a long shot. However, the tuning is not is good, which supports Graeme’s conclusion, so covering the hole does tame the tuning quirks. If I get time tonight I will try this on my other flutes.
So I guess my conclusion is that if I wanted to play uncovered, I’d be best off with a flute made under the assumption that that’s how it would be played. There’s no reason why that wouldn’t work as well as the other way except that perhaps it could require the holes to be farther apart? Purely speculation. I haven’t put that much thought into it.
When my wife’s done teaching I will go looking for the Drouet book.
maybe i had the wrong person in mind. i thought you were someone who had said that catherine mcevoy told you not to cover the embouchure hole of the flute/roll in. also, i know skip healy advises against covering.
Well, yeah, but I thought you may know of others. I don’t hear anything lacking in Catherine’s tone or intonation. I don’t think she’s being held back by anything.
I’m afraid that as far as Healy goes, I have only heard the track on WFO and wasn’t interested in investigating farther, although his blog is nice.
Graeme, thanks for posting this and the link. Coming from a period instrument background, it seems natural to take what the folks who had to play these instruments said into account when playing an old instrument.
I find it quite striking when people who learned on a Boehm assume that if it works for a modern flute it will work on an old flute. Maybe yes, maybe no. Having said that, my sister who has a music degree and plays the flute tried my Rudall and Rose a few days ago and got a fabulous tone out of it with what was obviously a very soft pouty lip position, with lots of the embouchure uncovered, so she clearly learned something playing a Boehm flute that I could emulate! But then I wasn’t checking her tuning…
Interesting post Graeme & thanks to the rest of the posters to for sharing their expertise & experiences.
I’m a beginner and I’ve read about covering the embrochure to get that good tone, and when I am good & warmed up I can do it & get good tone, but often I seem to get more reliable tone without covering much at all - I am wondering if I am pre-dispositioned to have to play that way because my embrochure is very much a “cupids bow” opening as my lips seem incapable of making a nice round apeture for my jet. Or maybe I’m just making excuses… : )
I am eager to see what my new flute will play like as my current cpvc flute embrochure is a circle, so perhaps a more oval opening will be easier to cover & get good tone too.
Hey Graeme, good job documenting the effect of lip on intonation.
I notice that your plots say 100% of recorded data was used. I normally get between 40 and 60 percent. Is that due to the mic, the computer or what do you think?
It’s due to the fact that I set the filtering to 0. I also checked it with very tight filtering to make sure the median values were close enough to the same as with zero filtering. But with zero filtering the graphs looked prettier! One small point is that the 1/3 covered and 2/3 covered labels shouldn’t be taken literally - more accurate would be “A bit covered” and “LOTS covered”
Cheers
Graeme
i think larry nugent may not cover, as well. it’s been a month or two since i last saw larry, i am pretty sure he does not cover. and let the record hold, i have learned so much about music by playing with larry, and i dont give a darn about his embouchure.
Graeme, it would be interesting to try this experiment on an old nach meyer flute as well. Are they really as bad as they may seem? Or do they just require a different embouchure? I haven’t seen any commentary from german flute magnates of the day on them like we have from Nicholson, Drouët, etc…