I just finished making a reed (generally following Seth Gallagher’s website instructions). The staple is 3/16 inch aluminum tube (I wanted to see if it had different tone than a brass tube). The reed is 0.5 inches wide and I did the sanding of the inner part of the slip with a 2.25 inch OD sanding block. This left the blades open so I used a bridle just above the wrap and just below the scrape to squeeze the lips closer together. In my CP Roberts chanter I got the first octave in tune by moving the reed into the chanter,this of course made the second octave sharp. I then took a plastic twist tie (about 2 inches long) and placed it in the staple. The twist tie was left flat and fits perfectly in the tube. This allowed me to slide it in and out of the staple to adjust the 2nd octave. It turned out that all but a 1/4 inch had to go in the staple. HERE ARE THE QUESTIONS!
Does this mean that the internal volume of the reed is too large? If it is, what can I do to reduce the volume on future reeds? The reed is playing well, good back D, in tune in both octaves, plays to the third D. Thanks for any suggestions.
2nd 8ve tuning is usually affected by the staples inner diam., and the eye size and rate of taper/flare on the staple. Does the 2nd 8ve get progressively sharper?? i.e. e is a bit sharp, but by the time you get to b it’s pretty way off. With a Roberts, often a cure is a longer flatter staple taper/flare and a narrower eye. And use Brass, it’s less likely to buckle and warp when forming staples.
I suggest a rolled 0.020" thick copper staple, maybe 0.425" X 0.450" at the ends and 2 1/8" long, for a start. My approach involves using a standard head you make and tuning the staple to make the octaves in tune. If what I suggest gives a flat upper octave, increase the narrow end to 0.430" or more to sharpen it. Once you have zeroed in on the staple dimentions, you can roll more and more easily reed the beast. I will roll staples for you if you send me a pm, or find someone that will. Staple rushes work, but once you have identified the need, I feel a rolled to spec. staple is the best way to go.
Brian- I did more scraping on the reed that you tried and it is very easy to play in both octaves in tune but the bottom D and back D are very sensitive to pressure (for my beginning bag control) and the 2nd octave b is hard to maintain. I think I went to far in the scrape (it was easy, in tune and played easily to 3rd D but I just kept pushing the envelope). This new reed I left a little stiffer (still much easier than the reed you tried) thinking that it will get very easy with some play. The last two reeds have been quieter but I don’t know why.
Fancypiper- I won’t unwrap this reed as it is working well but I will leave a little longer tail and pull the staple out of the head a little farther on the next.
Alan- I have had the 2nd octave go progressively sharper on previous reeds, but this one was fairly constant in sharpness up through the 3rd D. I will try a longer flatter flair with a smaller eye (I used a .06 inch opening). I will stick to brass from now on as I can’t tell a difference in tone and I did run into that bending problem with aluminum.
Ted- I will hold off on the rolled staple right now if that is OK. I would like to get these other variables worked out first before I add another skill. Can I maybe take you up on that offer in a couple of months?
Thank you all for this info that gives me something to work on in the next few reeds. I am using pregouged slips and some precut tubes from Seth Gallagher. I would encourage anyone who lives in a desert, that is having reed trouble, to get started trying your own. It is so cool to start out with some pieces and come out with something that makes music. If they don’t work, all you have really used up is some time.[/u]
AlanB,
What djm said! Easier to think 25.4 mm = 1 inch. What are you doing using metric in the first place? Are you a froggy? All the old makers tools(e.g. tone hole and throat drills) and measurements are in inches, not metric. Therefore a nominal 457 mm long chanter is really an 18" long chanter. Many old sticks are made in even inches or some even fraction, rather than pitches, hence maybe flat or sharp of a pitch based on A = 440 hz. Because of this, I bought all my measuring tools in the inch system, rather than metric. As my friend Benedict Koehler says when someone gives him a metric measurement, “What is that in REAL measurement”.
I was taught in a combo of met/imp., and have now learned to guess by eye in mms. Bugger! If I try an all imperial reed, will I sound like an old boy??
I am part of the metric conspiracy and proud of it. BK and I have matching digital calipers so we can talk to each other.
The question that I would like to have answered is this: Were Kenna’s inches the same as Leo Rowsome’s inches? There was a convention promulgated in 1958 which shortened the American yard and lengthened the Imperial yard. Did the Imperial inch remain constant prior to that? It is only since then that the exact relationship of 25.4mm to one inch has been recognized. But now we are talking about the hairs of frogs rather than their systems of measurement.
NO!!!NO!!! My illusions are shattered - I thought you guys used verniers with no dial gages, much less DIGITAL STUFF", mit batteries. I’ve been harping at work to all the young engineers that you need to use a straight vernier caliper so you see what you are doing without having a dial to depend on. oh well…
Gee, my vernier guage is digital and metric. The only other type I’ve seen is the dial-type. What kind of vernier guage are you referring to, Fel?
I grew up with the English version of Imperial measurements, which are not always the same as US Imperial measurements. Metric has two excellent qualities: first it is an international standard, which makes it easy to talk to other people because you all know you’re talking about the same measure, and secondly, the math is soooo much easier. No pricks coming at you with things that need to be converted like 9/72" in the Ems measures.
The US has simply isolated itself on the issue of measures, hiding it’s head under the sand, and wonders why they can’t understand measurements from any other country in the world. What for?
I’ve been reading this thread and holding my breath waiting for the inevitable drift!
Metric is just so much more rational, there’s no contest.
BTW, the US military used metric in Vietnam, does it still do so? If so, that could trigger a US-wide transition via the influence of what Eisenhower dubbed “the military-industrial complex”. Bring on the metric war-pipes!
Tony, exactly. You have to do these extra steps to work the fractions down (I gave an easy one). When it gets into the thousandths, you have to work the fractions down to decimals before you can do the math. All these extra steps. In metric, you are already at the decimal level, so the math is that much easier.
Depends. An Engineers scale is broken onto 10ths… sorts like a deci-ruler.
In the late 60’s and early 70’s the US started converting to metric then we sorta flipped back.
This is an update on the reed that I had questions on. After a week, I had to put a twist tie in the bottom of the chanter to flatten bottom D and 2nd E was going sharp. I played the reed like this until three days ago and then the quest for scientific reed exploration poked up its ugly head. I scraped more at the lips and the bottom of the “V” (actually closer to a “U”) to flatten the bottom D and 2nd E. This flattened the back D and top hand 2nd octave, so I gently shortened the reed by sanding the end with some 220 grit paper. This sharpened the D and left the bottom D, 2ndE about the same. I continued back and forth with this process (with intermittent bridle fiddling) until I ended up with both octaves in tune, playing fairly easy and nothing stuck in my reed or chanter to bring things in tune. YAHOOO! Before all this fiddling I would have attributed tuning problems to the chanter, but now I think I am firmly in the “It’s all about the reed, stupid” camp. I am completely amazed at the difference that minute scrapings have on the reed in the final stages. Maybe I just got lucky this time but I will definitely spend more time on the tuning portion of the scrape and not give up hope on individual reeds too soon.
I scraped more at the lips and the bottom of the “V” (actually closer to a “U”) to flatten the bottom D and 2nd E. This flattened the back D and top hand 2nd octave, so I gently shortened the reed by sanding the end with some 220 grit paper. This sharpened the D and left the bottom D, 2ndE about the same. I continued back and forth with this process (with intermittent bridle fiddling) until I ended up with both octaves in tune, playing fairly easy and nothing stuck in my reed or chanter to bring things in tune. YAHOOO! Before all this fiddling I would have attributed tuning problems to the chanter, but now I think I am firmly in the “It’s all about the reed, stupid” camp. I am completely amazed at the difference that minute scrapings have on the reed in the final stages. Maybe I just got lucky this time but I will definitely spend more time on the tuning portion of the scrape and not give up hope on individual reeds too soon. 