Tunes on different keyed whistles

Right another beginner question from me to try and get a better grasp of the whistling world :slight_smile:

I only have D whistles but I see a lot of people have whistles in keys like C, Bb and others. What I’m wondering is how that works with playing tunes. For instance I’m learning tunes from Bill Ochs’ book in the key of D, but then, would the tune be any different for a different keyed whistle? Would the sheet music differ any?

Would you play a tune you know for the D whistle on a Bb with the same fingering so that it sounds lower or would you try and play it in the key of D on the different keyed instrument? So, do you have to learn new fingering for every other keyed whistle or do you just play everything with the same fingering so that the music itself is played in different keys?
Erm, am I still making sense here? I hope I am :wink:


Arnout

In Irish music the lowest note of ANY whistle is referred to as a D (and consequentely the whole scale is named after the notes of the scale in D) irrespective of the whistle’s key.
You can transpose any tune by changing whistle (but still think of it as in D).
For practical reasons however you do use the odd whistle in a different key, eg say a C to play some Dmin and Gmin tunes some fiddleplayers love. The rest of it, when playing alone, depends on you preference of whistle and the sound of it.

I am concerned about the same thing. If I want to play a tune that is written in F (Bb), for instance, do I play that tune on the F whistle and it comes out right? Am I able to go below the D B and C? OR do I need to transpose the tune in to D or G? - or some other?

Thanx, BillG

Let me humbly offer my treatise on this topic:

http://www.chiffandfipple.com/whistlekeys.html

Hope it helps.

BillG,

The answer to your question is right in Peter’s statement, if you think about it. If you see a D in the music and cover all the holes on an F whistle to play it, the note that comes out is F, which isn’t right at all.

If you want to read the music as if it were written for D whistle, but play it on another whistle, you must transpose the written music. You go from the key of the whistle you wish to play on into D. So if you want to play on an F whistle, you must transpose the music either down three half-steps or up nine.

Well, now, guys, I am totally confused. I went to C&F whistle key page and it said the key of the whistle reflects the lowest note that whistle plays, the “bell note”. I conclude from this, then, that an F whistle’s lowest note is F and it should play F G A Bb C D E F. Dale, the post after yours said “No” to that and i would have to transpose. Oh, woe is me!

BillG

Take a look at:

http://www.sharewaredirect.co.uk/

and click on ‘Music Tips’ on the left side of the page. This will take you to a page that has quite a bit of basic music theory on it, and some provisions to print out a sheet to allow you to fabricate a ‘Music Sliderule’ that shows the relationship of the various keys.

Perhaps this will help a bit. Its all free, despite the name :slight_smile:

On 2001-11-25 17:39, BillG wrote:
Well, now, guys, I am totally confused. I went to C&F whistle key page and it said the key of the whistle reflects the lowest note that whistle plays, the “bell note”. I conclude from this, then, that an F whistle’s lowest note is F and it should play F G A Bb C D E F. Dale, the post after yours said “No” to that and i would have to transpose. Oh, woe is me!

BillG

Your conclusion is correct. The scale for the F whistle is indeed F G A Bb C D E F. Colomon wasn’t saying “no” to that. He was saying that if you have an F whistle in your hands and see a D on the page, all of your fingers are going to go down, but a D won’t come out of the whistle. An F will.

Here’s the thing. D is the reference whistle, and all whistles use the same finger progressions for their scales. So, if have a piece in D, you can pick up an F whistle, play the piece just like you would on your D whistle, and automagically you’re playing it in F. The downside is that if someone gives you a piece in F, you have to transpose it to D (because D is the reference), then grab your F whistle.

Alternatively, you could learn the F fingerings (F = XXXXXX, G = XXXXXO, etc.) and play from music written in F. I have tried it with my C whistle, though, and it hurts my brain.

~ Thornton

Warning: this may confuzzle the issue further…

If I needed to sight-read a piece that’s written in F and play it in F, I think I would pick up my C whistle, read the note and move it UP one note, and play it as if I were playing a tune on the D whistle in G. Mentally moving a note around by one whole step isn’t that hard once you try it.

Let this confusion end. Take any tune, listen to then play it on your whistle. Once that is done and you want to play it in any particular key, pick the whistle to suit. As simple as that.

Do let any key in which a tune is ‘written’ confuse you. It could have been written in any other key. The fact that the notes are referred to as if they were in the scale of D is just a, very practical, simplification.

Repeatedly on the Board, this issue challenges new whistle-ists, and so at the risk of boring those who have seen many similar threads previously, I offer my take on when & why to use whistles of different bell note. This is offered as my take only, & not intended as comprehensive music theory.

The “D” bell note whistle is considered by most to be the “standard” starting point. Changing whistles to a “higher” non-D bell note is like placing a Capo on a Guitar.
Example: Capo 1 on a Guitar is one semi-tone "UP’ from standard. So, if you played a D Chord without capo on a Guitar, the listener hears a true D chord. With Capo placed at the first fret (Capo 1), player plays same fingering of a D Chord on the Capo-ed guitar as on the un-capoed guitar, but the listener hears one semi-tone higher namely Eb chord.
Similarly with a whistle, play all fingers down (xxx xxx) on a D whistle, and listener hears true note D. Change to an Eb whistle (which is one semi-tone higher than D) but again play all fingers down (xxx xxx), and listener will hear Eb, which is the true tone being heard, albeit with the “D” fingering used by the player.

Say a tune is written in D. If the Guitar player plays the D Chords as written but uses Capo 1, the listener will hear the tune in Eb. So, if the whistle-ist wishes to accompany that Guitarist and play “in tune” with the Guitarist, whistle-ist plays the tune using fingering AS IF using a D whistle, but accompanies the Guitarist by using an Eb whistle, listener will hear guitarist and whistle-ist playing beautifully together in the key of Eb.

Whistles have an advantage over the Guitar in that going to lower bell whistle is like having a negative-Capo which guitars can’t do.

So, to the crux…when and how do I figure out to switch whistles. Firstly, understand that you or I can in theory play a tune written in Eb on a D whistle, but not well. The half holing required to play the notes in an Eb scale is difficult, and I’m not good enough to make it sound acceptable. It’s easier for me to play that Eb tune on an Eb whistle, which will allow me to use the familiar "standard D’ fingering, and simply have the tune Heard higher by the listener. If the written note is Eb,I must mentally quick-think to play my familiar D(xxx xxx), and the whistle sounds an Eb.

If the key of the tune matches the bell note of the whistle, fingering ease is probably maximized, OR, if the tune is in a CLOSELY RELATED key (think of musical siblings), then the fingering ease is probably maximized.
Example: D major is sibling or step-sibling to G major,B minor, E minor, A minor, thus a D whistle works easily. There are distant Related keys (like kissing cousins) that are not quite so easy to play, eg A Major which requires half holing or sometimes (xxo xxx) or sometimes (xxo xxo) to play G# on a D whistle.
So, let’s say I see music written in the key of Bb (not uncommon in liturgical music), I will select a whistle that has a Bb bell note or a whistle sibling (possibly Eb, which I might sometimes prefer over the Bb based on the range of the notes in the tune, and the type of sound I preferred - bright Eb versus more resonant deeper Bb). If the written note is Bb, I quick-think to play my familiar D fingering (xxx xxx, and whistle now sounds Bb. After doing this mental transposition for a short while, it will like riding a bike come back ever more easily.

Many other sources are available to assist you to understand related chord structures should you wish. Don’t be discouraged, just play and practice, and you will break through. I hope this approach helps somebody,and hasn’t been over simplified, but that’s how I look at it.
Best to all new players, and just keep at it.

Bob B - I certainly thank you for your detailed explanation. NOW I understand the whistle system. Thanx also to all of you who responded to my query. This is a great list group.

Bill


South Central Long Island, NY, USA

[ This Message was edited by: BillG on 2001-11-30 07:42 ]

Just one more thing to add to the discussion of keys. Certain keys are picked for very specific reasons. Maybe they are meant to be sung by a man, so they are keyed low. Or maybe there’s another instrument that the composer had in mind for a duet. So while you may be able to play by yourself in any key simply by picking a different whistle, when playing with others, the key may matter.

Erik

Erik