Trinity College vs. Celtic-Star

Trad Strings
1

Been contemplating getting a bouzouki to noodle around with for awhile now. I’ve had the opportunity to play a Trinity College Octave Mandolin and thought it sounded nice at the time.

Does anyone have any direct experience with the Celtic-Star brand of Irish bouzoukis as found here on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Irish-Bouzouki-by-Celtic-Star_W0QQitemZ110481967679QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b93d0a3f#ht_1942wt_1165

They claim to be manufactured in Europe (probably in a Slavic or other Eastern European country if I had to guess) so for me that it is a huge step up from China.

If had the $3-4k to spend, I would go with a P.W. Crump custom bouzouki, but alas that won’t happen for quite awhile.

Any advice or first hand experience on either brand, Trinity or Celtic-Star, is appreciated!

Matt

2

I have played several Trinity instruments and only one Celtic Star Bouzouki, although I’ve played that one enough to thoroughly examine it. While that doesn’t qualify me as an expert, I didn’t find any remarkable differences between it and the TCs in the model I played. For that specimen, I would consider the CS to be a lateral move rather than a true upgrade from the TC instruments. Both are well made, very serviceable instruments. IMO, the flat-top mandolin family instruments are fairly simple lutes, and it really doesn’t take too much to produce a playable one. Producing a truly superb one is a different story, of course. While I understand the reluctance that many exhibit toward Chinese instruments, I don’t think there’s anything at all wrong with Trinity College instruments. I find them excellent for their price. When someone charges $4,000 for a flat top bouzouki, it better be something extraordinarily spectacular for my money and involve something far more than the point of origin. But to each his own.

3

From the few TCs (and similar marques) I’ve checked out in music stores, their chief flaw (at least in comparison to any luthier-made instrument) was that they were enormously overbuilt. Or at any rate over finished. They all had a thick layer of plastic-based, sound-killing varnish. I’ve assumed that this might be why so many ship as electro-accoustics with factory-installed pickups. On the plus side, none were unplayable. That can’t be said of some eastern-european cheapies, which do (or did) have a percentage of total duds. I don’t know if he’s still doing it, but David Kilpatrick used to import many to the UK, which he’d resell under the ‘troubador’ name after giving them a good set-up and dud-screening. I don’t know what his dud percentage was, but he certainly had them in plural at one point.

4

For the sake of string-changing convenience alone, Matt, you might take into account the difference of tuning head styles between the TC and the CS: the CS has the kind similar to what you find on classical guitars, and the TC has what you find on the other usual modern guitar setups. I don’t know exactly how these machine heads are termed, but “slot” for the classical and “open” for the rest seems used some. Anyway, while for nylon strings the classical/slot style is fine (and probably best), when you’re dealing with steel strings it’s much more of a pain to string that kind of head. True, when it’s what you’ve got, you deal with it, but imagine my pleasure once I changed to open-style. I won’t go back if I have any choice in the matter. :thumbsup:

5

Really? The CS I played has a standard steel-string guitar type of headstock with the usual right angle tuners found on most modern mandolins.

6

Great advice and tips guys…thanks!

Also, I went back and read the description again about the tuning pegs and it says, “Gold plated and smooth working machineheads from Yamaha supplier”. Whatever that means! :wink:

I guess at the end of the day if the CS at least sounds like a bouzouki, granted not a $4,000 bouzouki, I will be happy. I’m not a string instrument player (rhythm guitar and some finger-picking at best) but I’ve always love the sound of the larger mandolin style instruments and would have fun getting some chords and melodies out of it.

Ever since I joined this Irish folk/rock band I find that I start learning new songs or writing new songs on different instruments, so it’s fun to be able to grab something and start noodling…

Matt

7

Waidaminnit. Is it the Firefly model down at the bottom of the page I was looking at? I believe so. Sorry…I coulda sworn I was looking at a slot head. My bad. I’ll get my eyes checked.

All the same, I always recommend open heads for ease of stringing. Personal experience with a slot-headed gizmo and metal strings, and all. Carry on. :slight_smile:

8

Hi Projektio 28 - I’ve had a TC for about 3 or 4 years now and really like it. I’m not great with it (even though I play it a lot), but even with my flub-ups it still has a nice clean tone, and good volume. I’ve never played a CS, so I can’t speak about them, but I don’t think you would go wrong with a TC.

Good luck in the search!

Best,
Trout

9

The Eastern European Hora Zouk has the slotted head. I know 'cause I have one and changed out the tuners and had to shim a bit to make it all work.

P.S. I’m upgrading to a CS. The above mentioned Hora, after a thorough pimping with upgraded strings, tuners, and end piece is wearing away it’s stain on the fingerboard and showing the light wood underneath. I am surprised, though, how good it sounded after the upgrades.

10

Not my instrument, but a reasonably-priced, used TC bouzouki just appeared here.

Cheers,

Rob

11

Hi folks! I am still here, and http://www.troubadour.uk.com though quiet these days due to the recession and rising postage costs for exports continues to offer four stringed instruments - the Blondel (cittern-guitar, travel guitar 620mm scale); the Gervaise, tenor mandola 402mm scale; Tamburlin, octave mandola 584mm scale; and Lionheart, 660mm scale bouzouki. The mando family instruments are now available with fitted pickup and 3-band EQ preamp too.

To clarify, standard HORA instruments such as Ozark use stained woods - stained back and sides/neck, black painted acacia fingerboard, inlays on the top wood. This allows the factory a wide choice of not very well matched woods for the body and neck, and keeps the costs down. Celtic Star look similar but HORA deny that they make them. HORA will not deviate from the slotted headstock because of the weight balance and nut string break angle issues, I’ve tried to get them to switch to a flat type but it requires an angled headstock to get the required break over the zero fret/nut slots and weakens an already fairly vulnerable joint.

Troubadour instruments use unstained solid woods (except the back of the Blondel which is laminated lime without braces). The woods are a couple of grades better than the coloured, stained, painted and otherwise hidden woods used on CS and cheaper HORA. Our fingerboards are made from either solid rosewood, or sonokeling (darker, ranges from looking like striped ebony to looking like… stained hardwood, but it isn’t). They used to be made from stained acacia, but the lacquer didn’t adhere properly to the sides of the fingerboard and the black stuff came off on your fingers leaving pale patches. It costs a fair amount extra to have rosewood sp fingerboards but improves the instrument a great deal. We did a period with unstained, golden acacia fingerboards, you may find these on the used market - they get a bit grubby with use.

All the HORA instruments, ours or others, are lightly built and responsive - often not exactly refined in tone, offering volume and sustain which not everyone needs. They don’t do delicate and sweet very easily unless you are a skilled picker. They are superb for open tuned (ADAD, AEAE, GDGD etc) chording/drone and high energy stuff and can compete with banjos, 12-string guitar and other loud session instruments. They are not overbuilt and overlaquered like TC and other Korean(etc) guitar-built zouks. But they also have simple flat fingerboards, Italian/Greek spacing at the nut (narrow), low bridges (little neck rake, again in European manner). They respond well to vigorous energy input, and display very bad manners in the presence of Sobells.

They are most out of place in bluegrass/country, most at home in Celtic/Balkan environments.

Cheers -

David

12

Nicely done. :laughing:

13

I think you may have been misinformed, Matt.

While some of the stuff from Hora may be ok, most of the Eastern European stuff I’ve tried has spectacularly failed to impress - bouzoukis, octave mandos, mandolins… The conspicuous exception being Gliga fiddles, which are pretty good.

China, on the other hand, is producing some excellent instruments: Eastman mandolins and violins, high end Kentucky brand instruments such as the KM-1000 and KM-505 mandolins. The Loar brand mandolins, Jade mandolins, Ohana and Mainland 'ukuleles, Vintage acoustic guitars…

You want reliable quality on a budget? Look towards China, not away from it.

14

EU rules allow german luthiers to import eastern European violins ‘in the white’, (ie, totally built but without a finish) lacquer them, and then sell/export the product as ‘made in Germany’.

15

By the way - I’m not a member of cittern-L any longer, if it’s even still going, but while I was several members bought one of David’s axes a various times, and all reports were that he was easy to deal with and his instruments were honestly described.

16

I personally bought one of David’s octave mandolins/short-scale bouzoukis. The instrument was as described and the transaction was conducted satisfactorily.

I have played many other Hora instruments as I am a regular visitor to my local Hobgoblin store. Gremlin/Hobgoblin source many of their lines from Hora as well as from suppliers in Portugal, Italy, China and Vietnam.

I would personally choose a Trinity College instrument, without hesitation, over any version of a Hora instrument I ever encountered.