as a novice whistler i am nevertheless particularly interested in traditional irish music…a few days ago i posted a note on the whistlers forum raising the fact that i had recently been told that only jigs and reels were ‘traditional’…got some replies, one of which suggested i post the same matter on here…does trad irish include hornpipes, polkas, airs etc or just the two mentioned, reels and jigs. Les.
Perhaps someone was referring to what is oldest, but all the types of dance you listed are now part of the tradition.
djm
But that interpretation is still based on an incorrect idea – airs are the oldest Irish traditional msuic form, after all.
My guess is somewhere along the line the statement got changed from “reels & jigs are the most common tune types in Irish sessions.” I can’t see any other explanation that would make it make any sense.
From Gearoid O’hAllmhurain’s “Pocket History of Irish Music”:
“The most common dance tunes in the Irish tradition are reels, jigs, hornpipes, polkas, slides, mazurkas, and highlands. Slow airs (usually based on sean nos songs in Irish) are also played by many instrumentalists. … Most dance tunes in the Irish tradition date from the 18th and 19th centuries.”
Some of the earliest Irish music according to O’hAllmhurain was probably harp music…harpers are mentioned in a book from the 8th century, for example.
I don’t think there’s any accepted cut-off date for what constitutes “traditional” and most attempts at defining “traditional” end up being shot to pieces.
This is outrageous! Marches and such have been around for much longer than reels and jigs (which are relativly new types of tunes). Jigs and reels are more common today, but are in no way the sole type of tunes in Irish music. Please pardon my saying so, but whoever told you this is an idiot.
-Jack Devereux
And what of the slip jig? That antedates the now-standard single/double jigs and slides, does it not? Or so I have been informed…
Yeah, I was thinking of the clan marches too, some of which have since morphed into dance tunes, but some are still played as marches.
Have just sent for the ‘pocket book’ on Irish Trad…should be here by first class…thanks for the info and tips and all respones…Les.
It’s not exactly light reading, but a useful reference to have.
Can somebody please explain to me why “most traditional” is equated with “been around the longest?” EEK!
Steve
It isn’t, at least not by most Irish musicians I know. There are tunes that were composed in the 1960s that most people would consider no less “traditional” than a tune composed in the 1800s. I think it has more to do with how well the tune fits within the existing tradition. There are some tunes being composed today that would probably qualify as “traditional,” at least in style, and yet tunes composed by, say, Mike McGoldrick would probably never be considered “traditional” by traditional players. (That’s not a dig at McGoldrick; I like his music for music’s sake, I just don’t think of it as traditional and he probably doesn’t either.)
As I said above, attempts to pin a date or other definition on “traditional” usually end up going nowhere. Does the composer have to be dead before his or her tune is considered “traditional”? Does a tune have to be at least 50 years old? Does it have to be composed in Ireland or by someone of Irish descent? Who knows, and really, who cares? I think most people would consider the compositions of Vincent Broderick to be “traditional” – they’re solidly within the tradition and many of them are widely played by Irish musicians. But Vincent is still alive. Where do you draw the line? For me, it’s all in the feeling and structure of the tune…if it sounds traditional, that’s enough for me.
Not to say that “traditional” can be defined in some real exact way, but there surely is an element of time and custom involved. Yes, I know, how many generations=traditional? But perhaps one could think in terms of traditional tunes, i.e. those that have been passed down for some generations, and a traditional style, i.e. a tune (perhaps a newly composed one) played in the style that has been passed down for some generations.
"tra·di·tion (tr-dshn)
n.
- The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.
a. A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage.
b. A set of such customs and usages viewed as a coherent body of precedents influencing the present: followed family tradition in dress and manners. See Synonyms at heritage.
3. A body of unwritten religious precepts.
4. A time-honored practice or set of such practices.
5. Law Transfer of property to another.
[Middle English tradicion, from Old French, from Latin trditi, trditin-, from trditus, past participle of trdere, to hand over, deliver, entrust : tr-, trns-, trans- + dare, to give; see d- in Indo-European roots.] "
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
I have no authority to speak on the issue, so it’s just my 2 cents. 
Irish Traditional Music is a style. It is a way of playing a tune that makes it traditional. A brand new tune played in the Irish traditional style is Irish traditional. If you listen to the Kathryn Tickell interview posted on the UP forum she says Northumbrian players will take a tune from another tradition but when they play it, it always sounds like a Northumbrian tune. The age of a tune is not necessarily an indicator of whether it is traditional or not, but how it is played. If you limit yourself to only certain types of tunes being traditional, you miss a whole world of lovely music and that is sad and frightening.
But by that definition, DeDannan’s renditions of “The Arrival of the Queen of Sheba (in Galway)” and “Hey Jude” would qualify those melodies as Irish Traditional Music.
A slippery fish, this traditional music thing.
So when you play your De Dannan CD do you fast-forward through these tracks?
Steve
What is sad and frightening is Pachelbel’s Canon in D on the uilleann pipes with a synthesized angelic chorus in the background.
It don’t sadden or frighten me. If I hear it and don’t like it I switch off. Ol’ Pachelbel himself might even have approved - who’s to know?
Steve
Oh, you nitpicker, you. 
The Canon on kazoo, then. But the angelic chorus stays.
Well, I haven’t heard the darn thing with synthetic cherubim to which you refer so pejoratively but I have heard Pachelbel’s thang done many a different way, some good and some awful but all usually with a dash of fun. Nit-picking I am not! As for Queen of Sheba, I’ll bet Handel would have been thoroughly delighted to hear Nana’s Dad play it with such panache and “bad taste.” And what miracles they wrought with that awful threadbare McCartney “Hey Jude” tune! First time I heard that I was grinning from ear to ear with delight at such cheek. What I was NOT doing was (nit-pickingly) saying sourly to myself “hang on, is this traditional?”
Steve
Dear me, Steve. It seems I’ve hit a nerve. Fella can’t have a bit o’ fun around here…