I’m going to make a PVC flute and have a question about the Flutomat numbers vs. Doug Tipple’s numbers. I think I might be reading something incorrectly in one or both locations.
As you can see, in some cases, the numbers are quite different. Can anyone point out what I’m missing in either Doug’s article or the use of the Flutomat?
Also, I don’t think either article indicates whether this is a measurement to the end of the hole or the center, but I’m assuming both are to the center of the hole.
Bingo! That got me closer, Lucas. If I leave everything in inches and then convert to mm after the calculations are complete, I get closer. They’re still a little different–0mm to 3mm after rounding, which makes me curious–but I’m much closer:
I have been away from C & F for awhile. Flutomat is an online calculator for calculating the position of tone holes on cylindrical-bore flutes. I use it as a good starting point, and I recommend it to others. However, the finger hole position measurements that I give on my online page about making a simple pvc flute I wrote about ten years ago, and I was not using Flutomat at the time. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of people, have made satisfactory flutes from these measurements, although I must admit that my current measurements are slightly different from the ones given on my webpage. Anyway, to bring this up to the present time, I received this feedback today from a customer in California who just received one of my 3-piece, 6-hole low D flutes with the standard headjoint without the lip plate. I am always happy to learn that someone appreciates my flutes.
"Hello Doug,
The flute arrived today. Thanks to your expert packaging the flute was in pristine condition.
Thank you for including an advice sheet, the cleaning cloth on a flexible metal rod, and a nice carrying case for the flute.
This black 3 piece 6 hole low D Tipple flute has a lovely, professional appearance that belies its humble PVC origins. It’s a fine piece to behold with its superb workmanship. The details of fit and finish are quite evident with the polished body, the silver rings, and the carefully cut tone holes and embouchure hole. Outstanding work, Doug!
It only took a few minutes to accommodate my fingering to the offset holes. I was used to inline holes, but now I never want to go back to them. The ergonomic aspect of the offset holes means I can play faster and more assuredly without having to stretch so much.
The tone just sings out and allows me to play longer phrases than I ever could on my maple xxxxxxxxxx flute.
Thank you so much for making such a wonderful flute at a reasonable price for impecunious musicians!
There’s one thing I’ve seen asked, but no answered, though I could (and probably am) missing the obvious posting…
Between the comments, observations, and conclusions of Doug Tipple (great web site Doug), and the use of the flutomat… and my definite need of another flute… I have one question… at the moment.
Are the flutomat number from the end of the flute to the bottom edge of the tone hole, or from the end of the flute, to the center of the tone hole ?
I’m almost ready to start drilling, but have this one last question…
Strike a centerline in pencil along the pipe (unless you are going all ergonomic). Measure from end to each hole center along the line. Use and awl or other center punch to mark the spot. Clamp the pipe securely to drill. Drill on the spot. Deburr and dress each hole. And most importantly, have fun!
I have just bought a B flute from Doug and concur with all the sentiments expressed by Doug’s recent D buyer. I can’t get over how much the low sheen black PVC that Doug uses looks like blackwood. Its a very smart loking instrument as well as a fine player.
I have had pretty good luck by starting with holes about 2/3 the calculated diameter. I gradually enlarge holes, starting with right ring finger until the tuner says the pitch is correct in the low octave. Alas, the overblown notes are flat. You can raise the pitch by blowing louder, but that is the opposite of what flute players want to do with high notes. You can raise the pitch in the second octave by pushing the cork closer to the emboucher hole, but, contrary to published teachings, I have never been able to push it in far enough without interfering with the inside of the emboucher hole. I roll the cork in liquid paraffin wax before inserting it; this helps it slide and provides some moisture resistance.
You can’t win. I am experimenting with a reduced diameter emboucher area. It has been known for hundreds of years that this will correct flattening of the high notes. We shall see.
I started this about two years ago with a piccolo in d for a 4th of July parade in a bad neighborhood where I did not want to take my silver piccolo. It worked so well that I seldom get the silver picc out! Also, a d picc works well in e dorian in blues clubs. In the high notes it is loud enough to not need a mike and amplifier.
I am now working on a D flute. I have the tone hole and the pipe cut with the cork, and it produces a rich woody tone at the low end, just like my silver Yamaha.
I have been away from C&F for awhile, spending my time at another site whose name I will not mention, slap me in the face.
Here is a suggestion that I mention on my website. Let me praise the wonders of masking tape; I use it for everything. When laying out the position of the finger holes on a flute, I stretch a piece of masking tape along the length of the flute. I draw a straight line with a meter stick and layout the holes on the tape. I remove the tape after I have drilled the holes, and there are no marks on the flute body that I have to remove. The tape method is especially useful for laying out the holes on a black pipe, where it is hard to see the marks otherwise.
With regard to the flutomat numbers for drilling the finger holes, I have used the exact flutomat numbers with good success for several years now. I just received a feedback note today from an accomplished musician who ordered three of my flutes and was very pleased with the tuning of the flutes.
I enter all of the flutomat numbers in inches and convert the results to millimeters after I receive the results from flutomat. I find it easier to layout the holes using millimeters instead of inches. However, I do make some adjustments to the numbers that I enter into flutomat. If I drill a hole that is 3/8", instead of using .375 inches, which is an exact equivalent, I use .381, which is an average of the hole diameter after I have finished the hole with files after I drill it. This process gives a little more accuracy to the flutomat numbers.
I just finished a one-piece based on following Doug’s “Make a Simple Irish Flute” posted directions very precisely. The tuning using the measurements as provided is quite good. A little undercutting here or there might be needed on a tone hole.
Thank you for providing those Doug!
I do have several comments on the construction.
– Plan on making a few. Improvements in your build technique will suggest themselves.
– The embouchure was the trickiest bit, and it is going to take a few more tries to get it quite right. Even so, my first try plays ok - just not as nice as it could be. I want to experiment with the oval embouchure. I am reading everything I can on embouchure – there is not too much on the net – good stuff on Terry McGee’s site though.
– A more ergonomic finger placement can be had by drawing two or three parallel lines to the bore, rather than one. Then Place your fingers on those lines to understand where tone holes should be placed best for you. The masking tape technique that Doug describes makes fine tuning tonehole placement a breeze.
– I used the 5/16" hole rather than the 1/4" for the R3 finger, because I have big hands. Works for me, but I could see how that could cause problems for someone with smaller hands.
– Having the luxury of a metal lathe, the next one I make will be two piece, and making the tenon will be a challenge. This is all good, cheap, practice for moving up to making a wooden tenon. I found that turning PVC can make a mess if you don’t do it right - strings of binding chips or melty smelly work. I did some research and found that a rounded head HSS cutting tool (high top and back rake) or a removable carbide cutter (DCGX 3(2.5)1 AL H10) made for cutting aluminum works well, combine that with a fast feed rate, low-medium rpm (900rpm?). aggressive cuts, and a high rake angle that keeps the chip from winding around the work should all help, but it is tricky to get a nice finish.
Well here is my take. I use the Bracker calculator. I use the just intonation. What I have found is that you make sure that the od and wall is correct. I have been using 10 by 12 mm oval cut emb. Any changes in the aforementioned measurement really affect the length from emb (center) to end of flute. I am cutting in the emb and then cutting off at the end until I get the bottom or bell note. This has been very close with the above calculator.
I mark the holes. And, here is the starting points. Yes, starting points. You need to go slowly up to the hole diameter mentioned. I suggest tuning the bottom three and then the top three. Use a tuner. Note the cents. I use mm bits and go about .5 mm below the above calculator readings (you can always take off more than you can put on). Use files and fine sand paper near the end. Go slow. Let the flute dry out. Swab it out for pvc shavings. Go back and tune some more. Play it and listen. You should be able to play a flute if you want to make one.
Yes, the emb is the most important cut. Yes, you have to make thousands to get it right. How do I know? I have had to make them for about a year or so. And, I am still perfecting them.
Thanks to Skyspirit for his/her additions to this thread, which only goes to show you that there is usually more than one good way of going about making anything, in this case a pvc flute.
Skyspirit, I have to admit that you lose me when you say that you need to let the flute “dry out”. Actually, you don’t need to let pvc dry out, but you do have to swab out the moisture and pvc chips for the best performance. This also holds true for a completed flute. Unlike some flutemaking materials that absorb moisture, such as wood, pvc does not absorb moisture, so beads of moisture collect in the headjoint mostly as you are playing. The flute will perform a lot better if the moisture is swabbed from the flute rather frequently. I provide a long steel/cotton swab that allows you to do this without taking the flute apart. I have also seen players of the silver concert flute pull a silk swab through the flute after every piece that they performed.
Skyspirit also mentioned about needing to make a great number of embouchure cuts before “getting it right”. My thoughts on this are a little different. I don’t think that there is such a thing as an embouchure size and cut that is just right. There are all kinds of embouchure sizes, shapes, and cuts, and there are many combinations that work for some people. High quality concert flutes have a number of different embouchure cuts that you can buy, and each one plays and sounds differently. I offer two embouchure cuts, a smaller circle and a slightly larger oval. They play and sound differently, but I like both of them.
Doug.
