The perfect NAF and whistle hybrid??

Whistle
1

I found a whistle that is 100% wood: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wooden-flute-whistle-low-E-/191210604745?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c850a48c9

There are some sample clips provided by the seller that I really liked. The second octave did sound a tad bit airy and weak compared to the first. But, still very pleasing to my ears.

I’ve always wanted an instrument that is half whistle and half NAF. This appears to be a decent choice.

Has anyone ever dealt with this seller or a whistle that is 100% made out of wood like this?

The seller provided some pics of the low E whistle. To my very limited knowledge on whistle construction, it appeared to be well made. Can anyone offer up advice as to some of the pros or cons I might run into?

If this whistle should be avoided can anyone recommend a 100% wooden whistle that is a “quality” instrument. Keep in mind, if a whistle sounds a little too flutey or recordery, that does not bother me.

What I do like is an instrument that is intonated very well or in tune and has a nice strong and stable low end. Also, a low blowing whistle is definitely a big plus to me.

Thanks in advance!!

2

I’m not clear which half is the NAf. This seems like a fairly standard whistle—made entirely from wood. Jon Swayne is another who makes an entirely wooden whistle (although his prices, and probably his quality, are much higher). Also, most any recorder maker provides an all-wooden instrument.

It’s a bit difficult for me to get a handle on the sound of the whistle you cite as there’s a fair amount of reverb going on in the recording. Perhaps it’s the reverb that is giving you the sense of the NAf ?

Best wishes.

Steve

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Appearance is not what I was referring to when I used my half and half comparison. The tone to me sounds like that of a cross between a whistle and a NAF instrument.

I can certainly respect your opinion that reverb totally prevents any sense of gauging the tone of instrument. However, I can’t say agree with it. I understand some folks find reverb to be a bit of a “novelty”. I do believe that one can discern a notable quality on tone with an effect on. To my ears, there definitely seems to be a pleasing tonal mixture of the two instruments.

Recorders do not interest me as I have never played one before and am not interested pursuing them. However I thank you for the John Swayne suggestion. I will look into it.

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I have to agree with Steve … There is nothing NAF-like about it. The air chamber and adjustable fipple “totem” (and usually pentatonic scale) are what give the NAF its characteristic sound and feel, and this instrument has neither. It looks and sounds like an ordinary (though perhaps nice) diatonic low E whistle.

As for the recording, I guarantee that I could take any low whistle (e.g. Goldie or Susato) and, by twirling a few knobs, make a recording that sounds like a typical NAF recording. Just saying a recording is a rough guide only, if you’re expecting a very specific sound.

I note that on his website, the maker refers to his whistles as “Shepherd’s Flutes”. Which suggests that the aesthetic he has in mind is an eastern European frula / sopilka / floyera, not a NAF.

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Have you ever even played a Native American Flute MT??

I never knew that was part of your repertoire?

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OK, as they say “chacun à son goût.”

Best wishes.

Steve

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Yes. Have you ever even played a whistle?

Translation: Insults are not a good way to advance your discussion. :wink:

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JUST FYI: There was no insult on my part. You flamed my opinion on a NAF/Whistle hybrid. Attacking my credibility and judgment on the tone of a NAF. I just simply was wondering if the guy who feels strongly as being an authority on the tone of Native American Flute plays them at all or at least regularly.

I own two Native American Flutes. They are from High Spirits and I am quite fond of them. I play and practice them on a frequent basis.

Might ask what Native American Flutes you own and how frequently you play them? I think it a fair question based on what ever reasons you feel validated in calling my judgment on Native American Flutes into question.

As to your statement about my whistle playing. I find that totally off topic and have no idea how that is relevant to this conversation at all.

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Roy McManus also makes a complete wooden whistle, prices are about £175 but I love them. Here’s a few Pics of them. The complete wooden one is the lighter coloured wood 3rd from bottom.
http://imgur.com/a/qVe2X#2%20
Not sure what a NAF is though

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OK ickabod, if you want to play that game, I’ll play. I’m in the mood today. :slight_smile:

I think you need to review the meaning of “flame” and “attack”. A difference of opinion is not, you know, an attack. You explicitly asked for advice (“pros and cons I might run into”), and I gave mine: that you may be disappointed if you rely on recorded tone and your predisposition to be interested in NAFs, and perhaps hear what you want to hear. If the only allowable replies to your post and query are “I agree with you”, then why post at all?

Hm, I don’t recall identifying myself as an authority of the tone of Native American Flutes, much less feeling strongly about it. If I’ve said so anywhere here on the board, please point me to it so I can apologize.

That’s nice. I’m glad you enjoy them.

Sure, you can ask. No, I don’t currently own a NAF, for various reasons. I’ve tried a few over the years, to satisfy my curiosity and to educate myself, as a experienced wind player, to the characteristics that distinguish the NAF from other wind instruments and fipple flutes - partly so that I can give informed opinion here on the board.

It’s only as off-topic (and insulting) as your comments about me (or anyone else) and NAFs. After all, your thread topic is “The perfect NAF and whistle hybrid??”, which implies some familiarity with both. And since the sample recording is at issue here, I suppose everyone’s experience with sound recording is also germane. Not to mention eastern European fipple flutes. But if you expect an exchange of musical curricula vitae with anyone who cares to reply to your post, we’d better be prepared to supply free coffee to the entire Chiffboard. :wink:

If it’s a more NAF-like sound your after from a diatonic whistle, I’d suggest first you experiment with recording your own whistles at hand, adjusting your embouchure and recording settings to produce a result which approximates your expectations. You’ll be in a better position to evaluate whatever NAF-like qualities you hear in the sample recording, and whatever risk you may be taking in considering an unvetted Polish frula based only on a recording and photos.

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You don’t need to be a native American flute player to know what one generally sounds like, or to know how strongly the tone of an instrument can be influenced by electronic effects. Regardless, (and yes, my experience with native American flutes is limited, as I don’t like the music played on them, but I have played one briefly, and heard them played many more times) the instrument in the recording doesn’t sound like a native American flute to me. I think maybe there was just a bit of misunderstanding of MTGuru’s response. Sometimes tone of voice and way of saying things doesn’t translate so well into text. I didn’t detect anything beyond a simple regular response to the topic at hand.

On the topic of the OP, though- One thing to keep in mind is that a whistle being all wood doesn’t necessarily mean it will be at all more similar to a NAF. There are at least a few wooden low whistles out there, but there are so many other contributing factors to a whistle’s sound than the material, which, in comparison to those other factors, has a minimal impact on the sound. So, you may very well find a plastic or metal instrument that sounds just as much in the direction of what you want a whistle to sound like than a wooden one would.

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If by “Native American Flute” you mean the kind with the external windway, the Low Whistle I’ve heard that most sounds like that is the older Reyburns with the large maple heads and a brass body, a very special whistle with a sound like no other.

Here in California our actual indigenous Native American Flutes are made completely differently, having no fipple or windway or ‘totem’ whatsoever, being a plain open tube with fingerholes, and played like a Kaval. No whistle or any sort of fipple flute sounds anything like these; they sound more or less like a Kaval.

I found this out when I visited the reconstructed Miwok village in Yosemite valley. There was a small gift shop and among the things for sale were a few things which looked to me like primitive Kavals. I picked one up and started playing it and some Miwok guy runs up and says “You’re the first white guy who has been able to play that”. Turns out the Miwok guy was the flutemaker! I told him about Bulgarian and Macedonian kavals. He’d never heard of those.

Now armed with this new (and surprising) knowledge that some NAFs were like Kavals, I looked through a book which had a large number of photographs of pre-modern NAFs in museums, and sure enough most of them were like this, having no fipple mechanism. Makes me wonder where the fipple-style NAFs came from and how they became standard in the modern NAF world.

The same thing happened in the Appalachian Dulcimer world. Pre-Revival Appalachian Dulcimers had distinct regional variation and the hourglass shape was only one shape of many and restricted to a small area of Appalachia. When the revival took off for some reason it was the hourglass shape which became standard, the other traditional shapes being overlooked.

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I say go for it, get one, and let us know about your whistle.

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I am a native American and make Irish tin whistles.
I’m not a tribal Native American, but a hybrid with many diverse ancestors, but I was born in America.
When I think NAF I think haunting pentatonic, peace pipes and burying the hatchet.

In Yosemite I met the native American and traded one of my whistles for one of his. It could be played from either end and sounded good either way. Not pentatonic or diatonic or in tune with mine. Just pleasant.
Amazing how we met on equal but diverse common ground!

Mack

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Not just in California. I’ve seen these end-blown flutes marketed as “Anasazi” flutes, presumably suggesting that they’re more an Ur-flute. But judging from the Breckenridge flute dated to around 1000 CE, the “Plains” style fipple NAF is also quite old. How the Plains flute came to dominate the NAF revival movement is something I’m sure NAF enthusiasts can explain.

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Geoffrey Ellis makes both native american flutes and low whistles made out of wood. He is a highly renowned flute maker and I’m sure he can help you:
http://www.ellisflutes.com/whistles

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Fantastic :thumbsup: definitely the kind of stuff I was after in my Post. If you would provide information as to how to go about ordering a Roy McManus whistle like these I would be grateful.. Thanks for the suggestion accordionstu!

Just visited the site :smiley: Those are some exquisite looking whistles there. I immediately wanted one. Thanks for the link squirrel! I appreciate it BTW, the tone was very VERY nice. Precisely what I was looking for in my original post.

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If you want to hear more on the Ellis whistles you can read here about the tour we did with them. https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/geoffrey-ellis-low-whistle-review/84531/1 They are beautiful whistles. And yes, Squirrel is right. Geoffrey Ellis is a well regarded maker of Native American style flutes too.


Also, if you want something that sounds like an NAF, play an NAF. There are lots of diatonic major NAF flutes out there, not just pentatonic minor scales.

If you want an all wooden whistle. buy a wooden whistle. There are quite a few makers of all wooden whistles as well.

Feadoggie

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There are several whistlemakers who can make you a wood whistle so just contact them and tell them what you want.

Perhaps this whistle is wood enough.

Sweetheart Flute Company rosewood D.