The disappearance of F#

I took out my old Williams chanter the other day, just for old time’s sake, and found that the F# has turned into a G, in other words they now sound exactly the same!!? I haven’t played it for months.

What does this suggest? I get a good crow from the ABurton reed, and all the other notes are in tune??? Even though the F# now sounds like the G, does this mean the F# has gone flat?

How can I correct this? Thanks…

Time for some tape?

How Queer! :boggle:
Is there some disturbance up the bore?

It shouldn’t do that Bogues. If the chanter is keyed, check to make sure there are no leaky pads. Make sure there are no leaks anyhwere, even around the fingers. The reed should be securely in the seat. Things like this can happen when chanters just sit around. :wink:

I guess the reed could have a leak…from drying out and taking on a new shape.

Weather changes usually cause leaks as the wood will shrink and swell with humidity swings, so eliminate any leaks in the set tenons and/or bag.

I would definately check the reed for leaks first, especially along the sides of the head and in the binding.

I use Elmer’s or Carpenter’s glue and put a drop on my finger, then draw along the sides of the reed head, pulling away just before I reach the tip. This will usually cure head leaks.

I scrub the binding with real beeswax until it builds up level with the twine, then polish slick by scrubbing vigirously with a scrap piece of cane. This should seal the binding.

If you suspect a leak in the reed seat, seal around the staple with poster putty.

Reed leaks can drive you crazy unless you learn to check for them first.

Don’t even think about putting glue along the edges of the reed slips. This will ruin the tone of a reed (I’ve had to restore them for people–unglue them–and what a difference!). An AlanB reed might be worth a hundred dollars to me, before gluing (leaking or not). But if glue was applied, I wouldn’t give you a dollar. Best let the problem cure itself over time, or get it in the hands of a pro reed maker. You can test the reed to see if it’s leaking. If you are unsure of anything, don’t mess with the reed. Try ANYTHING else first.

YMMV.

Ater my glue dries to clear looking, it is sort of rubbery feeling and I can peel every bit of it off with my fingernail, no problem (except that the leak comes back and the reed misbehaves again). Of course, avoid contact cement, super glue and stuff like that.

I think the trad fix is to scrub beeswax along the sides, but I have had the wax to get inside the reed head and kill the reed, so I switched to Elmer’s glue.

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?p=196397&highlight=glue#196397

And the weather will immediately change and there goes the mechanical fit.

My pipes are happy while playing in my living room… anywhere else will usually create a reed leak and playing is impossible if not fixed.

I guess I should also point out that my chanter is tuned the best with the “square” design of reed, which is more prone to leaks with weather changes than the “tapered” design that Benedict Koehler teaches. I think David changed his mind after working with Benedict.

You gotta play what you got, or get rich and buy a personal set out of the maker’s hands, and I ain’t rich.

Elbogo, I’m sorry to see you get buried under all this conflicting advice. And all for no reason, really. You see, your F# isn’t actually missing. I … er … I’m afraid that … well, you see I … um … borrowed it. Just for for a few minutes, mind. I absolutely intended to give it right back, but then the cat got it and, well, its not a pretty sight, I’m afraid. Sorry about that. :blush:

djm

The mechanical fit doesn’t change with a well made reed, except maybe in extreme conditions. I’ve often been amazed at how a mediocre or dull sounding reed could be considered good-normal. AlanB makes a type of reed that doesn’t adjust easily by moving the bridle, ie, the location of the bridle isn’t up to or over the end of the V scrape…it’s way below, near the winding. But with my BK reed, I can play it in a variance of about 35° (55-90°) and a relative humidity variance of about 45% (35-80%) and the reed needs very little adjustment with the bridle to keep it sounding as snappy as before (normal). If I do adjust the bridle, it’s about the least distance you can move it, maybe as much as the width of a piece of thread. Scully’s suggestion is more for entertainment. :wink:

Oops, we forgot about you!

Perhaps you can remember the differences in the weather conditions when it played correctly and now.

If it’s more humid now than then, try putting the reed in the refrigerator overnight to dry out the reed.

If it is dryer, put in a sealed container with a piece of damp (not wet) sponge in the container (don’t let them touch each other) overnight to humidify the reed.

That is, if there are reed leaks in the head.

Boy are you lucky!

There is no way I can get to standard pitch at 55 (I would be flat if in tune with myself) or 90 degrees (well sharp of standard). 65 degrees to 80 degrees is as far as I can go and still be in standard tuning.

My playing humidity range (currently) is between 50 and 65%. Anything out of that range causes head leaks for me.

I wasn’t aware that the bridle on a BK reed was movable. The last class I had under him, he used the tapered design with the bridle at the base of the head against the wrap and the reed was opened/closed with pinching the bridle.

Scully’s suggestion is more for entertainment. > :wink:

You could have fooled me! :smiling_imp:

Full quote: U.P. Essay

Thanks, guys, but I get confused easily. Actually, my Burton reed is or was quite used to most humidy changes… but I’ll have to check for leaks anyway.

Now, let me ask you this, if I do get a good tight crow, shouldn’t that indicate no leaks with the reed?

Ah, but djm, if you have F# I better get it back in one piece!

elbogo,
Do you have any spare reeds to test that chanter?
How is that reed in your other chanter?

Did you play-in that reed for a while? any changes??

If F# plays like G, it’s sharp, not flat… if you find no other reason causing the problem, partly tape the hole below (E hole) and see how it plays. If everything plays/sounds right… keep on playing.

Well, come now, Elbogo. A good tight crow? Where do you expect to get one of those nowadays? Seriously, now. I mean, they start so young these days, don’t they? They have absolutely no morals about these things. I’d leave the crows right out of it if I were you.

Now a good tight duck, on the other hand … :smiley:

djm

djm, speaking of “good tight ducks” you are a wacky one yerself!!
Got a good chuckle out of that one… you knob!!! (term of endearment.)

Seriously elbogo…
what’s the latest on the chanter & reed?
did it change any by playing it?

My experience is that any reed that is left to sit for too long will go out of whack or die completely. Reeds need to be played just to maintain its shape. Sometimes I have been able to bring them back with a few scrapes of the lips on fine grit wet/dry paper. In the case of leaks on the sides, I have used the glue on the edges of reg reeds where it doesn’t matter too much, but the reed never sounds as good as it used to. IMHO the best cure beyond any of the above is just to make/purchase a new reed.

djm

I gotta go with Lar on this one. I’m certainly no expert, but of the 8 or so reeds I’ve made from scratch, none have experienced large swings in playability because of the weather. They are all certainly succeptable to changes, but in every case, the one’s I’ve made changed only slightly at best.

I’ve had a few with leaky sides, but with only a few completed reeds under my belt, I’m sure that’s all part of the learning curve. Ironically, every single one of them has played reasonably well, and for the most part in tune - though admittedly some better than others. I recently switched back to my own reed instead of the Pat Murray reed that came with my chanter and It’s been going along brilliantly for the last month or so now. I think Pat’s did develop a small leak - most likely from having been re-tied before I got it.

Anyway, I agree wholeheartedly that there simply is no substitute for a well made reed. It certainly takes practice, but the benefits are great! Learn to do them yourself and I promise any new reed maker will be supprised at what you can pull of in a couple of afternoon’s worth of work. I’d try and stay away from any ‘quick fixes’ like glue, special bridles, cane treatments like that PEG stuff or whatever. Cane is an organic material and will have inherent fluctuations in density and playability…but learn to work with it. Most importantly - have FUN with it. It’s a whole new level of control you’ll learn when you start making/adjusting your own reeds in the chanter throat.