When playing on slower pieces the other day, a sudden realization hit me–I rarely use the C-natural key for C-natural in either octave.
I stopped and considered. I do use the key, just not on C-natural, with a few exceptions.
On reflection I think my most frequent use of this key is to vent C-sharp and bring it up into tune, especially in the second octave where on almost all flutes it’s chronically flat. Fact is, I prefer the old Baroque flute fingering for high C-sharp ( o x x | x o x ) with the E-flat key depressed, to the “standard” fingering of all fingers up. But add the C-natural key and the high C-sharp comes nicely up to pitch.
I do use the C-natural key for C natural if it’s one of these situations:
–a note that falls on the downbeat or on a strong accent
–a longer note
–scalewise movement from the left-hand notes below
–if I want to “punch” the note with a hard breath pulse
One thing in particular I almost never do is move from the keyed C-natural to the D right above it. This is a difficult “break” for me to play smoothly, both because of the technique, and because of the change in tone quality from the C to the D above it.
I was wondering if anyone else has thoughts about the “long C” key and what they do and don’t use it for.
Hi James, for the most part, one has to watch what one says around Scottish highland bagpipers. For some reason, if I say the wrong thing, they beat me up (once through me in the river). They say they play in A major but when you look at their sheet music it is in 2 sharps, i.e. D major. It does not do to point out the descrepency. The descrepency is that they are really playing in the Mixalodian (not spelled right) mode that has a deminished “te” or 7th note. This you get if you start on A and play the D scale notes. But they really dont completely deminish the 7th note. To me it is like the 0x0 000 C natural on the M&E flute. So sometimes when I am playing in D major I use the 0x0 000 for all C notes. I like the 0x0 000 for C when playing in G major also, I use it a lot, it sounds ok to me, although I know it is off.
Yes, A Mixolydian is notated with two sharps. Even though I understand what the different modes are, I find it difficult to remember how they are usually notated. On page 25 of Grey Larsen’s book, “The Essential Guide to Irish Flute and Tin Whistle”, he gives a figure which illustrates the combinations of mode, tonal center, and the common notation most commonly encountered in Irish flute, tin whistle, and uilleann pipe music. I just make it easy on myself and refer to this figure instead of trying to remember the details, which usually stay with me for couple of days and then …
Dont think of it as D major though, think of it as A with G naturals other wise putting chords to it or shouting out a key in a session could be disasterous!
I also use the C key to bring C# (esp. in the second octave, or a longer C# in the first octave) up to pitch; I think the clarity of the note is also positively affected. I like the C key when going to C nat from A or B, although in total, I probably use crossfingerings about 60-70% of the time.
The Western European plainsong modes that do not have a diminished 3rd are considered major scales. This is probably a reckoning based on the fact that the “tonic chord” will be a major chord in these modes. These modes are the Lydian, the Mixolydian and of course the Ionian (the so-called “the major scale”).
The reference to A Mixolydian as A Major by Scottish modal musicians was a reference to the scale rather than a reference to the sheet notation key signature.
Actually, no; A mixolydian is the harmonic mixolydian mode of D major. So A-mix is written in D major (2 sharps). For some period of the 19th-century, the pipes were in A (A=440 or slightly sharper), so they were notated appropriately. In the 18th and 20th centuries, the pitch was higher; now they notate in A-mix but play in something sharp of Bb-mix.
A lot of pipers don’t have any grounding in music theory, I don’t think, Nelson, so they just don’t understand what you’re talking about. I learned highland pipes in a band which had a bunch of “pro” musicians (on other instruments), so they understood the relationships.
Personally, I wouldn’t trust music theory instruction from an ex-geologist, but here goes. Every scale or mode has a certain arrangement of whole tone and half tone intervals. The major scale (Ionian mode) that we are most familiar with has half tone intervals between the 3rd and 4th notes and between the 7th and 8th notes of the scale. All of the other intervals are whole tones. This is easy to see when you look at a piano keyboard and play a C major scale.
For the Mixolydian mode or scale the half tone intervals are between the 3rd and 4th notes and between the 6th and 7th notes of the scale, with all of the other intervals being whole tones. You can play in the Mixolydian mode with any tonal center, but the most common ones for traditonal Keltic music are G Mixolydian, D Mixolydian, and A Mixolydian.
One of the main purposes of using a key signature at the beginning of a piece is to reduce the number of accidentals that would otherwise be present without the key signature. Two sharps works well for A Mixolydian, although you could notate it with no sharps if you wanted to.
A Mixolydian is a modal scale with A as the tonal center. However, it does contain the same notes as the D major scale. That is why it is easy to write it usuing two sharps.
I’d have to say that I am a big fan of getting the features offered by keys, by not having keys, whenever possible. And so I really like having a “c-hole” on my flutes. I use it so often, that I find it awkward to play a flute without one, expecting it to be there under my left thumb. I primarily use it for BcB passages, songs like Rakish Paddy or Star of Munster, etc., or to bring c-sharp up a bit for tunes like Guzzle Together where it’s really important.
There is nothing wrong with what you have written here but what is the relevance of it? Did anyone here suggest that A Mixo. should be notated in anything but in the key of B minor?
The question is why was Nelson thrown in the river for not knowing that A Mixo. is a major scale.
OK, all I was saying was when I play the keyless flute in D major, sometimes when I have been dirinking beer and/or people play too fast, I do the 0x0000 instead of the 000 000 for C because my ear is tuned to the Mix mode (probably from being used to highland pipes so much).
If you insidt on knowing why they through me in the river, one particular night, the Irishmen in the pub told me to stop it. Stop using 0x0 000. That iritated me, so when it came my turn to make a toast (after many) I toasted: “Up with the orange, down with the green, to hell with the Pope and God save the Queen”. My Scottish friends told me the next day that they saved my life by picking me up and carrying me down to the river and throwing me in. I guess that if there is any excuse, it is that in the USA we do not realize how serious the orange-green thing is–no, not good enough. “Another epasode like that and you will be expeled from school”, they said.
All I was saying to James was, I like that 0x0 000.
I am sorry Nelson, I don’t understand you. If you’re playing A Mixolydian on a D flute why would you oxo ooo? That would be diminishing the 3rd and by doing that you would be playing A Dorian.
The only reason to oxo ooo for a Mixolydian on a D flute would be if you were doing D Mixolydian.
Here is what I think, but like I said before, this is coming from someone who expertise is hard rocks, and I am talking about the geologic kind. A mixolydian scale is neither major or minor; it is mixolydian. Yes, A Mixolydian is related to D Major and B minor, and that is why 2 sharps are used as a key signature. But with A Mixolydian the tonal center is A, not B or D.
According to Western music theorists going back to Pythagoras and others the Mixolydian scale is a major scale. We are talking about the naked scale here. If you take the tonic of any Mixo. scale and combine it with the 5th and the 3rd you will get a “major chord”. Darling sweetie, you cannot do this with the minor scales - the Dorian, Phrygian, Aeolian (natural minor) and the Melodic and harmonic Minor scales. See?
Yes, A Mixolydian is related to D Major and B minor, and that is why 2 sharps are used as a key signature. But with A Mixolydian the tonal center is A, not B or D.
Yes and Christmas Day is on 25 December! and the sun rises in the East! Bravo!
If you play a D major scale, except you play the C nat instead of the C #, it is the deminished 7th note, in other words, the major scale intervals are whole, whole, half, whole, whole, half, whole. E.g. in the C major it is C whole D whole E half F whole G whole A whole B half C. So playing with no keys on an Irish flute, if I play 0x0 000 or 0xx 000 the C is (close to) C nat and this is the mix mode with the tonic as D. So someone who is “groved in” playing the mix instead of the major, woud be inclined to flat the C # to a C nat on the flute, even though the tune is in D.
And Christmas Day comes on the 25th of this month!
So what? What’s new?
So someone who is “groved in” playing the mix instead of the major, woud be inclined to flat the C # to a C nat on the flute, even though the tune is in D.
Nelson
This is pretty speculative. I really don’t know any musician so “groved in” to one scale that they cannot play the scale that is needed, I play both D Ionian and D Mixo. regularly on my Irish flute and this doesn’t happen.
Also, if the Scottish musos were playing with A tonic using a D signature notation they were playing A Mixolydian and not D Mixolydian and I don’t see how your oxo ooo comes into this equation because if you cross finger the C# when your tonic is A you will get A Dorian.
Maybe you should go to India and get thrown in the Ganga River. That may clear things up for you.
or end up in the hospital depending on your constitution and karma.
if you decide to jump in the ganga, at least get up in the mountains somewhere on the road to gangotri first.. or better yet, get in somewhere near the glacier!
Yes and Christmas Day is on 25 December! and the sun rises in the East! Bravo! 