I am listening to and learning the butchers’ march
Listening to Jimmy O’Brien-Moran. Sean Reid’s Favourite, I see in my real player this is a march. Also on the cd text it says March.
. But uh I am counting a jig. Something wrong with me?
Carel
It could be a 6/8 march… like O’Sullivan’s March, or Bonnie Dundee.
Yup. 6/8 march, played as a jig.
The tune’s simply a jig that happens to be called a march in its title. It’s a very old tune, in print in the 18th century I think, and may well have been used as a march originally.
Then again, why would butchers be marching? Scary image actually.
Willie Clancy’s father played a double jig he called the Hurler’s March. Willie’s mother had another title for this same tune - The Humours of Ballyloughlin, which it is inevitably called now. Another tune in the old books is a 9/8 jig called the Ladies’ March to the Ballroom.
Lots of old marches were recycled in this manner, for instance the Cock of the North is played in Ireland as a jig - Chase me Charlie on Seamus Ennis’s Pure Drop record - or Mac’s Fancy, on De Dannan’s Mist on the Mountain, is a Scottish march, I forget the correct title.
One 6/8 march which gets played a lot around here is the Atholl Highlanders, which I never like to hear - it sounds like a lame rendering of the Piob Mhor, not Irish dance music. Not enough rolls or something. I don’t care for the standard settings of the Dawn or Silver Spire either, they just sound like zippy hornpipes to me.
I read the little booklet of Mr. O’Brien-Moran’s Cd Sean Reid’s Favourite
" Tommy Kearney was one of my first teachers and among the tunes he taught me was a very old jig called The Butchers’ march."
I used to play it as a reel, but finally found the jig
Reinforcing what Kevin writes, I thought it was widely accepted that some old Irish marches existed in 6/8 time, and were absorbed into the dance repetoire as jigs. Ie, there is no reason to discount them as marches (or treated as marches) since they are not in duple meter, which seems to be where Carel is coming from.
Duple meter just means the bar or measure is divisible by 2, and of course, 6/8 is 2 groups of 3, so it is a species of duple meter. Which is why it can be used as a march.
Duple meter just means the bar or measure is divisible by 2, and of course, 6/8 is 2 groups of 3
Well I’ll be! Thanks for the correction, Bensdad.
Four-to-the-bar marches are fine for marching troops on parade grounds (especially if they step as short as the US Army, as seen on film), but a 6/8 march is much better for marching to on soft going.
Thanks
I see
Carel
The Butchers march has one of the characteristic features of these old big pipe tunes in that it is hexatonic and misses out C when using the G (1 #) scale. The drone that fits this tune should be on A not G as that’s it’s “tonic”.
These Hexatonic and Pentatonic scales are very common in old pipe tunes.
Another Hexatonic scale used (Drone on A) has a C# but does not play the G (and in the pentatonic case D). One common characteristic of tunes in these modes is to have an ascending phrase like |C# B C#, D C# D| four bars from the end of a line (O’Sullivan’s March) which breaks the pentatonicity.
TTFN
John S
The drone that fits this tune should be on A not G as that’s it’s “tonic”.
Are you determining the tonic by placement of the gaps, or by ear?
What G Drone? Do you mean D?
Expecting bagpipes to make sense tonally is a lot to ask! It’s been in print, in the key of “G,” for centuries now. I agree that it sounds very old, like a tune that was brought over from the Piob Mhor, where it would work very well in “A.”
By Ear Eric, always by Ear.
I’ve tried several different combinations of Drones on this tune.
D works OK but to my ears an A and E combination makes it sound most interesting.
I think from the evidence of other tunes that I’ve looked at the Irish Big Pipes had the possibility of a 4rth and 5th drone on top of the tonic.
Unfortunately no surviving examples of this Bagpipe are known and the pictorial and written accounts don’t help much.
The only thing to do is to look at the tunes themselves for evidence of Drone tunings.
Of cause this is somewhat subjective but needs must when the Devil vomits in your kettle.
I’m working on an article about what I’ve deduced with examples and when it’s finished I’ll post it.
TTFN
John S
I’m working on an article … and when it’s finished I’ll post it.
Thanks very much for sharing, John, looking forward to the article.
an A and E combination makes it sound most interesting.
As you mentioned in relation to another point, it’s all very subjective, especially if we get into criteria of what sounds most interesting.
The only thing to do is to look at the tunes themselves for evidence of Drone tunings.
Well, there’s a pretty well established tradition of bagpipes existing alongside the tunes which should give a lot of information already.
All in all, it sounds like you’ve set yourself a tough row to hoe!
Good Luck,
eric
Maybe Eric.
Now if I can just get through this stubborn patch of Grattan Flood bindweed…
John S
There’s a record by Charlie Lennon & Mick O’Connor called “Lucky In Love”, which was recorded for Comhaltas Ceoltoiri Eireann in 1981, and this tune is on it. The notes were by Paddy Glackin, who states :
“Good example of old 6/8 time [ 17th century ] march, now played as a jig.”