# Telling the difference between cocus & rosewood? **URL:** \ **Category:** Irish Flute\ **Created:** [May 6, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/telling-the-difference-between-cocus-rosewood/19056 "2004-05-06T01:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hoovorff](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hoovorff](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Hoovorff)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/telling-the-difference-between-cocus-rosewood/19056/1 "2004-05-06T01:39:34Z")
Is there anyway to determine by sight the wood-type of an older flute? What physical characteristics do rosewood & cocus have? Thanks, Jeanie ---
**Author:** ![glauber](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/glauber/32/259_2.png) [@glauber](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/glauber)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 4:32am UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/telling-the-difference-between-cocus-rosewood/19056/2 "2004-05-06T04:32:56Z")
Rosewood is a generic term. Cocus is a kind of rosewood? Maybe. African blackwood, for example, is a kind of rosewood. It’s hard to tell by wood color alone. If it’s an antique flute from the 19th century, if it’s dark brown it’s probably cocus, if it’s light brown it’s probably boxwood. If it’s black it could be ebony (for the older flutes) or African blackwood. ---
**Author:** ![Hoovorff](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hoovorff](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Hoovorff)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 11:06am UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/telling-the-difference-between-cocus-rosewood/19056/3 "2004-05-06T11:06:08Z")
The late 19th c flute in question is mostly dark brown, although on the foot joint there are some lighter patches that have a dark orangey-reddish color. I was told it might be rosewood but I wondered if it might be cocus instead. It has such a pure tone. Hmmm. Maybe cocus? ---
**Author:** ![Jayhawk](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/jayhawk/32/298_2.png) [@Jayhawk](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Jayhawk)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 11:23am UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/telling-the-difference-between-cocus-rosewood/19056/4 "2004-05-06T11:23:26Z")
Is it an anonymous German flute? Dave Migoya told me there were a lot of those that were rosewood (mine is most likely rosewood). Is there a definite dark/black grain in the wood? If so, I’d guess rosewood. Eric ---
**Author:** ![Hoovorff](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hoovorff](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Hoovorff)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 2:53pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/telling-the-difference-between-cocus-rosewood/19056/5 "2004-05-06T14:53:19Z")
Yes, it’s a 19th-c German flute. I’ll look for the markings you described. Probably, rosewood, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![sturob](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/sturob/32/198_2.png) [@sturob](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/sturob)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 3:53pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/telling-the-difference-between-cocus-rosewood/19056/6 "2004-05-06T15:53:00Z")
Cocus is a legume, not very closely to rosewoods. I did a whole spiel on it a while back . . . if you search for “cocus” “allergy” and “taxonomy” you’ll find the thread, I think. If you have an older flute, particularly a 19th-Century one, that has any hint of brown or red in it it’s almost surely rosewood and not cocus. Cocus turns quite dark relatively quickly, and won’t keep its brown color for all that long. I have a cocus flute that’s now in it’s 2nd year, and I just had a new body made (in a different key). Even in 2 years the original cocus parts are considerably darker. Yeah, cocus probably does vary somewhat in color . . . but I don’t think I’ve seen a bona-fide old instrument in cocus that was anything but nearly totally black. Also remember that there were German possessions in te 19th-Century that grew rosewood, but all the cocus was from British possessions. Doesn’t mean the Germans didn’t have access to cocus, but it was probably much easier for the British to get it. Stuart ---
**Author:** ![Hip\_O\_Potamus](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/4da419/32.png) [@Hip\_O\_Potamus](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Hip_O_Potamus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 9:36pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/telling-the-difference-between-cocus-rosewood/19056/7 "2004-05-07T21:36:38Z")
Saw into the wood, then sniff. Rosewood will smell like a rose. Then throw away the flute you just sawed up! ---
**Author:** ![andrew](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@andrew](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/andrew)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/telling-the-difference-between-cocus-rosewood/19056/8 "2004-05-07T21:57:10Z")
If you find it smells like a cocus do tell us about it . ---
**Author:** ![glauber](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/glauber/32/259_2.png) [@glauber](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/glauber)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 3:55am UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/telling-the-difference-between-cocus-rosewood/19056/9 "2004-05-08T03:55:40Z")
> [@andrew](#): > > If you find it smells like a cocus do tell us about it . 😆😆😆 What is the wood that people call rosewood? I know rosewoods are a family of woods (that doesn’t include cocus, thanks Stuart). I think African blackwood is a rosewood. Jacaranda’ is a Brazilian rosewood. Is there a wood that’s just called rosewood, too? ---
**Author:** ![andrew](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@andrew](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/andrew)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 8:31am UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/telling-the-difference-between-cocus-rosewood/19056/10 "2004-05-08T08:31:32Z")
There is a family of woods harvested from rosewood trees .As has been said it doesn’t seem to have been used a lot in England for flutes ,as opposed to furniture and guitars .I find the best rosewood ( Rio ) was yellow & black and other sorts more reddish, and the best cocus is still a glowing orange / brown ,after 150 years .A lot of it does go dark brown , however . ---
**Author:** ![sturob](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/sturob/32/198_2.png) [@sturob](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/sturob)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 1:58pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/telling-the-difference-between-cocus-rosewood/19056/11 "2004-05-08T13:58:05Z")
All that has to do with is how much natural light it’s seen and not the quality. Even the light cocus will turn black if it’s seen a lot of light. I have an old (late 1700s) set of pipes made out of cocus. It’s pretty dark, probably because it’s seen its fair share of the outdoors (it’s a highland set). It was repaired a long time ago, with a couple of the ivory mounts replaced with . . . shoot, the name escapes me, but that horrible faux ivory that turns orange . . . Anyway, with the mounts taken off, the wood underneath is the lighter orange-brown that Andrew describes. You could probably seal cocus with some kind of varnish with UV-protection if you wanted it to remain light. I accidentally left a piece of timber near a window for several months . . . the surface that was exposed to the light is quite dark, whereas the bottom is brilliant and light. So I suppose what I’m saying is that I don’t think the quality of the (cocus) timber has anything to do with whether or not it turns dark, but rather how well-cared-for the instrument has been. My opinion. Stuart ---
**Author:** ![Hoovorff](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hoovorff](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Hoovorff)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/telling-the-difference-between-cocus-rosewood/19056/12 "2004-05-08T22:38:18Z")
Thanks for the information, everybody. I guess I’ll just enjoy my old German flute for what it is–whatever it is. 😕 It’s mostly dark brown but around the keys, especially on the footjoint, it’s orangey-red. Rosewood or cocus, it’s still a good player. Thanks, Jeanie