Let me tell you a sad story. About a year ago, after a bout of practicing 3 hours a day for approx. a month, I ended up with some kind of spinal/nerve problem. I can play the pipes for a bit, but after a few minutes my left hand fingers get stiff and lose their dexterity. Usually I have to put the pipes down after 5-10 minutes. When this all started I was determined to get it fixed and get back to regular playing, so I spared no expense. I’ve tried physical therapy, anti-inflammatories, muscle relaxants, electro-massage, shiatsu, heat/cold therapy, chiropractic, and probably a couple others I’ve forgotten about. I went to a neurologist who did a nerve conduction test in my lower forearm and said that I didn’t have carpal tunnel. My doctor said that I’ve basically tried just about every non-invasive thing that I could. His only suggestion was to get an MRI and look into having surgery to correct my problem. Knowing that there are several MD’s on the boards, I was wondering if anyone had any opinions on surgery as a method to correct these kinds of problems, what the recovery time was like, could you play as well as before you had the problem? Basically, anyone got any good advice?
Thanks,
James
Surgery to correct what problem - since nothing been identified? So far you don’t seem to have found a physical problem, but perhaps instead a problem in usage. I’d suggest first upping your physical therapy approach to seeing a Feldenkrais (movement therapy) practitioner. Their one-on-one approach is called Functional Integration. There may be some parasitic (non-useful) muscle movement that is in conflict with your movement goals, and such a practitioner could re-train you to a better and more comfortable use. The North America organization can be found at http://www.feldenkrais.com/ . I don’t know where you are located, but there are practitioners around the world.
Kevin Krell
I agree, what kind of surgery for what problem? I’d say you need a diagnosis first. Have you tried going to a hand surgeon? Hand surgeons can be either Plastic surgeons or Orthopedic surgeons.
Short of that, I can’t help you until you get pregnant or need hormones or something like that. 
Jeff
You may also talk to a person who specializes in PT/ergonomics. It may be a simple matter of how you hold things, where the padding is, or how you move.
Also, if you started practicing 3 hours a day from the beginning, you may have stressed something. People should remember that playing the pipes is like any other exercise: start off slowly, in small amounts and build up. An hour a day (or even less sometimes) split into two 30 minute sessions is enough to get you started, keep you learning and keep you from hurting yourself in the beginning while you build up muscles, muscle memory and good practice habits.
Dionys
-Disclaimer- I’m not a doctor nor a medical expert of any sort.
I had an inflammed rotator cuff that just wouldn’t get any better until I let it rest for 6 weeks. As awful as it is to say, you may want to put down the pipes for a month or two and let things heal themselves.
I hope you feel better and can get back to piping soon.
No E
Well, quite right about the diagnosis problem. None of the doctors or other practitioners I’ve seen know whats wrong with me. Usually when I go in whining about having problems playing the bagpipes, they give me the same look I would imagine they would give me if I said “Doctor, my right arm hurts when I masturbate.” In other words they kind of think that this problem isn’t really terribly important. I got that vibe from the two doctors I saw when I was in the military. So that may have been part of the problem (military doctors). In any case, I know that there has been some type of physical injury because I have circulation and numbness problems even when I’m not playing. It’s just most noticable when I try to play because of the rapid finger movements involved. I’ve tried all sorts of posture adjustments and elbow padding real early in this whole escapade. I haven’t tried Feldenkrais, although I have heard of it. Probably would have been much easier to find when I was in California than here in Georgia, but I’ll certainly look into it. I don’t think it would do much good going to a hand doctor because I can tell the root cause is up near the spine, which is in turn affecting circulation in the arm. The doctor that suggested thinking about surgery said I might have a disk out of whack or something. He said that the MRI would show if there was something “surgicable” (is that a word?), but if the MRI didn’t show anything, then I was probably SOL. Anyway, keep the suggestions coming, I’m open to anything.
Thanks,
James
P.S. Re: No E’s post. I’ve taken several months off since this started. Essentially, I don’t play the pipes anymore. I pick them up once in a blue moon to remind myself why I can’t play anymore. But after the 5-10min. I have to put them down.
Ah, a real symptom. Here are some things to think about: Perhaps a “funny bone” kind of pain (numbness, maybe a little burning). Maybe in the forearm in front of the elbow. Aggravated by pressure against the finger pads, when gripping, or particularly the thumb, if pressing against something? Aggravated by lifting weights? There can be some tingling through the wrist, also. If anything at all like the above, it could indeed be radiating from the back, often the shoulder rotator cuff on the particular side involved. The above can be relieved through chiropractic, some stretching exercises against a door frame (spreading the chest). Oh well, these may be off the mark for your particular incident.
Again, I think that you’d certainly gain some information from Feldenkrais. I’m a big proponent of body therapy, having avoided having both knees replaced before I was 20 (kneecaps kept trying to get out). I did register for College in a wheelchair. BTW, at the time, artificial knees were pretty crappy, limited to about 90 degree movement. In my case, I underwent a series of 10 Rolfing sessions (deep tissue massage) at age 26, and have never had any problem since (50 next month).
Best of luck to resolving your issues and returning to playing.
Kevin Krell
Lots of great advice.
Get a proper diagnosis, continue with physical therapy. Don’t consider surgery an option.
It’s important to improve your overall physical strength with exercises that don’t aggravate your condition. You’ve got nothing to loose from this. Try some vitamin B supplements… someone told me about this (especially B6) and it appears to help me with shoulder/arm pain I get from piping.
James, I think you are being far too hard on yourself. It is not your fault. It is the chanter’s fault. What an idiot instrument! What moron could ever have designed something so ridiculous? Got a gun? I’d go out and shoot something, just to feel better and let off a bit of tension if I were you. Hey! Why not the chanter? 
I second (third, fourth?) the suggestion to go to a chiropractor. As well, you might want to consider an exercise system like tai chi ch’uan to loosen and re-align your spine. It would be better than sitting around moping and staring at your pipes - I mean your UPs. 
djm
No really, I HAVE tried everything. I went to the Chiropractor long enough that he told me he was stumped and had no idea why it wasn’t getting better. I’ve been doing Yoga and martial arts for years and have always been consciencious about stretching. I’ve even been supplementing B6 by accident (a weightlifting supplement I take has 300% DV of B6, which doesn’t include what is in my multivitamin). Kkrell, my symptoms are similar to what you descibe, except that weightlifting hasn’t helped or hurt. The only problem is that the therapies you mentioned haven’t had any effect. Believe me, the last thing I want is someone cutting into my spine, but everything else has so far failed miserably.
To DJM… Hey, can you hand me my pipes? There the ones that say "Bad Motha****er on ‘em. I’m goin to get a couple hard pipe-hittin’ Irishmen to get all Medieval on the brotha that sold me these things…Hey, wait, that’s YOU DJM!
Peace,
James
maybe your not playin enough,and your seizing up?
Just checking in to see if anybody replied about the pipes 4 sale post of my own, caught this, then decided to reply since I know James. He has been playing long enough and is quite accomplished that there has to be something more going on than this being a beginners problemo.
Ask somebody to check to see if you have a cervical rib (an extra rib that is higher than the usual first rib over which the nerves and vessles to and fro the arm must course over and thus get stretched) or something else about your shoulder girdle anatomy that may compress the axillary vessels or nerves when you play and abduct the arm/shoulder girdle. You may have an ulnar nerve tunnel compression that is exacerbated by playing. The location of the bag may have something to do with it if it is compressing the brachial vesssels and nerves on the inside of the arm. Whatever the cause, an interested sports medicine specialist might be sympathetic enough to help out. Check out Emory in Atlanta or even come to Nashville to see somebody who may care…and take your pipes to show them what happens. They should want you to play to the point of discomfort, and you should demand the opportunity, so they can check your pulse to evaluate blood supply or conduct a basic simple upper extremity neurological exam while under duress.
Also, it may be the bag with which you are playing. Try others including fatter and narrower and smaller and bigger to see if it makes a difference. Gotta meet with other pipers or go to a tionol to test this one.
What are you doing in Valdosta of all places? Are you out of the USAF at the moment? Write me at glands@comcast.net
Beehiveman aka Lewis
I had carpal tunnel surgery about 2 1/2 months ago and I was playing my pipes Uilleann and Highland ,again with no pain in about a month and a half. Surgery helped me thank god.
Get a second opinion on the chiropractic.
Weightlifting (curls, etc.) would be harmful.
Even if something is found radiating from the spine, there are still numerous non-surgical approachs. If it’s mainly pain, then epidurals, or endoscopic opening of up areas compressing nerves, facet blocks, & radio-frequency denervation can deal with the sensations. The main thing is for you to go ahead and determine a cause. Put the chainsaw away for now.
Kevin Krell
- you are all over the place with your suspicions of what is wrong. if its the circulation it is not a disc, and visa versa.
- there should be lots of doctors who do not look at you funny becuase you play the pipes. that is what occupational medicine is all about.
- feldenkries will not hurt. try it until it helps or until it does not.
- otherwise, you need a full workup. you should know what is wrong without commiting yourself to surgery.
- if you have a spine problem, there are surgeries and their are surgeries. some should be the last resort, some considered earleir.
- if you have a circulation problem, which i STRONGLY doubt, it needs to be addressed immediately. there are sometimes solutions which do no involve real surgery.
- you may have a repetitive stress injury. carpel tunnel is the most common but there are others. 3 hours a day is alot of anything. as has been suggested, a hand surgeon or very good general orthopedic surgeon could evaluate you for that.
- finally, and this is unlikely, there IS an official entitiy called writers cramp- its not a joke, its a neuro diagnosis. i doubt you have it. however, some neurologists are VERY GOOD diagnostiticians, even if it is not a problem they can solve. they will send you to the one who can.
- finally, you may want to ignore me, i am one of those military physicians.
- if you are still entitled to military benefits, pm me i can help. and for the rest of you skeptics. i take home the same salary whether i help him or not. i am just offering to point him in the right direction.
meir
As the recipient of three spinal surgeries, I urge you, Mr. Dasinger, to continue searching for an alternative to invasive proceedures. In my case there was nothing left for me to do, having 3 ruptured cervical discs, but to have surgery. It was that or lose the function of my arms and live with searing pain 24/7.
OK, possibly a pinched nerve. Let’s try another guess here: Is most of the discomfort in the left arm? Assumes right-handed playing position (Left hand on top, bag likely under the left arm, bellows on the right)? If so, could be problems with the bag, left shoulder held too high, nerve compression actually occurring somewhere around the collarbone area, but felt in the left arm. Pain as previously described, possibly some weakness just holding objects in the left hand, palm up?
Well, definitely go about diagnosis in some systematic way. The suggestion of a sports medicine practitioner may be helpful. The main thing is to find someone who understands the muscle and nerve systems (and traces them in your particular body), not just the physical structure (bones, usually) that many chiropractors and most orthopedic doctors pay attention to.
Kevin Krell
Thanks for everyone’s concern. Now if I could only find a doctor as concerned!
Glands: I don’t know what it is you said, but I’m going to print out your post and show it to whichever doctor I go to next. If he’s not willing to go through that to find out what’s wrong, then I’ll move on. I hate to say it, but I just might have to fly up to Nashville if that’s what it takes to get someone who’s willing to go to those lengths to find out what is wrong.
kkrell: About the therapies you mentioned. I’ve never heard of any of those, but would love to find out more. Are they Feldenkrais therapies?
As to my symptoms, I certainly don’t expect anyone to virtually diagnose my problem, but if you are interested… I can best decribe the symptoms this way. When I try to play my left hand fingers cramp. However, It doesn’t stop all movement and I can still play through it, my fingers just feel “clunky.” That’s the loss of dexterity I was talking about. After I stop playing there’s a light discomfort and “nervy/funnybone” feeling for a little while. The loss of circulation is light but noticable when doing certain things. For instance, if I do a yoga pose where my left arm is out to my side or above my head, I will start to lose circulation (get that tingling/pinprick feeling) much more quickly than before the injury. For those who have mentioned it, I don’t think it’s just bag positioning as I tried shifting the bag around, playing with larger/smaller bags, and wearing a pad around my arm which kept my elbow more or less completely off the bag.
meir: I apologize if I painted military doctors with too large a brush. My personal experience with the few doctors I have seen in the military was not positive. However, that shouldn’t reflect on the conscientious doctors out there.
I just separated a month ago and haven’t sent in my disability paperwork yet. At my records review they said I could probably get a 0% disability rating, which, as you know, would allow me to use VA hospitals. Which would probably be good since I don’t have health insurance right now. If you have any tips on what to put on the paperwork, that would be great.
To anyone: It’s obvious that I need to find a good doctor, although I’m not sure how you can tell whether any particular doctor is “good” or not? But my question is, should I go to a general practitioner and get a referral to a specialist, or should I go directly to some kind of specialist? If so, what kind might have some knowledge of my problem?
Thanks again for everyone’s advice!
James
Feldenkrais is known as “Awareness through Movement”, and is an exploration of how you move and the interconnections to functioning. Often taught as classes, or self-exercises from tapes or books. My Feldenkrais practitioner also teaches Tai Chi, so there are numerous ways to approach this. The Functional Integration portion is a gentle hands-on therapy, where the practitioner moves/trains you (most of the work is on a low massage-type table), and is very relaxing as well, although the changes can be as significant as from Rolfing (where elbows are dug into you quite, well, hard).
Procedures such as the epidural, facet blocks, radio frequency denervation etc., are pain management techniques to block the pain sensation, reduce inflammation around nerves, deaden nerves where appropriate, etc. My mother has degenerative spinal problems which in themselves cannot be corrected. However, the relief of pain allows her to be more functional (and in a better mood), relaxes areas so that physical therapy (pool therapy mostly) can be a benefit to posture and functioning, and allow her to re-strengthen those areas so that she is more resilent and can regain greater independence.
Again, sounds like a pinched nerve, rather than circulation. You may have a structural problem that is contributing to to this sensation, by its doing the pinching. These are often referred from other locations in your body, as I’ve mentioned instances from the shoulder, etc. I still think you’d get the most answers from someone well-versed in the muscle/nerve systems, and probably a body worker more so than the regular medical profession.
Kevin Krell
Dont listen to any of those others .Just work through the pain! You may end up Looking like Quazimodo but it will be worth it !