I play tinwhistle without stabilizing it with RH pinkie or ring finger. Now, after 1.5 years of doing that all wrong, I decided to change to the right way.
AFAIK, there are two approaches to that: the lowwhistle-like, using RH ring finger to stabilize A, B, C and C#, and the flute-like, using RH pinkie on most of the notes. As soon as I have a dream of moving to a baroque flute one day (can a guy with no classical training play Handel and Telemann, I wonder?), I chose the second one.
I’ve read Grey Larsen’s “Complete Guide…” once, and AFAIR he recommends to keep the pinkie on the whistle all the time except cases when you are going to make a tap or a roll on E note. I’m trying to play that way for last 2-3 days.
Well, I can do this. But. Fingers on my RH are tensed again (I worked so hard on avoiding that!) and start aching after 30-40 minutes of playing. Also changes on low notes are weak, and rolls come “unexpected” all the time, but that’s the matter of practice. Tension is what worries me. Pinkie which is always straight gives that. Will the tension leave in some time, or I’m doing something wrong?
Another problem is “middle” whistles - I don’t play low D, but want to be able to play Bb, A, G. On a Bb my pinkie either does not reach the whistle, or I have to use some weird sort of piper’s grip. Note that my hands are big enough to play without piper’s grip on a whistles down to low F, so that’s weird.
I use B-3. Run a search on “lazy fingering” and you’ll find lots of hints on where you can leave fingers down without altering the pitch of notes. Basically, you can leave B-3 (and sometimes B-2 and B-3) down most of the time without causing the whistle to go out of tune. Leaving fingers down also makes transitions between some notes easier. Going back and forth between C# and D is easier if you play
OOO XXX
OXX XXX
OOO XXX
because you are moving fewer fingers. Brother Steve’s site has a good discussion of lazy fingering.
I’ve been doing to much chemistry and took that with an entirely differnent meaning and was confused
but, I usually just stabalize the whistle with my thumbs, and when I’m playing B I’ll use my right hand ring finger, no idea if this is right…no idea if any way is right, just do what works
I do know that trick, but that is not something that helps a lot when playing stuff like “K: Edor; ~E3 {c}B2B | EBE {c}AFD | ~E3 {c}B2c | dcB {c}AFD”, or "K: F#m; f | ~B3 BcA | Bce fec | ~A3 Ace| ~a3 fec ". You need better control not only on C# note, but on other top notes also. No lazy fingering of C# will help you to stabilize the B/=c/d triplet
(yes, it’s the inability to play Morrison’s that turned my mind to re-learning)
Hatao is too fast to understand what he’s doing, seems that his pinkie is always down for high notes starting from G and sometimes down for other ones, esp when going down the scale. http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=J1ZM4lt3sZY
As for your problem, most of the advice already given is sound. Personally I use R4 (little finger), but then, I learned Boehm flute first where you have to use it that way, then picked up whistles and then shifted to 8-key simple system, so I made the opposite progression/had it built in. Unless you have very unusual finger proportions it ought not to be a problem. The pain you are experiencing is just from tension due to unfamiliarity and as your hands get accustomed to the new patterns and sequences of finger combinations and changes it will ease off if you just keep practising, not overdoing it and concentrating on relaxing and being controlled. Do you arch your R hand fingers at all, especially on the higher whistles? On the lower whistles, using an angled semi-piper’s style for the R hand (which also helps with wrist angle) usually solves the problem. Have a look at my low whistle and high whistle videos on my YouTube channel - there’s a teaching demonstration of The Leitrim Fancy there which you may find helpful. I had some other pictures and/or vids of holds and finger changes somewhere on here - I’ll add the link if I can find them.
First I play the bell note. Pinkie does not reach the whistle. Then I go up and down the scale as I used to do, not using the 4R finger. To do that I need only to lift the fingers and put them back. Than I try doing the same using the 4th finger. I’m not used to, so I make mistakes, but that’s not a problem. Problem is when I change from C# note to D note. I have to turn the right hand.
Then goes the same for G-d notes, B-d notes and B-c-d triplet - same, first how I used to, then how I’m trying to learn. Then I try to play a tune as usual and with the pinkie, but fail
The 2nd sequence, G-d, demonstrates the turning hand the best. Is it right to turn the hand that way? Or I’l have to use piper’s grip here, though I do not need it?
Well, as a newbie my experience has been to try to always use the RH pinkie. I am quite used to this now and really don’t seem to have to strain to keep it on the whistle for all notes.
When I got my new Burke DBSBT, I began to feel that by RH pinkie was getting very tired, very quickly. It really annoyed me. The DBSBT is hefty compared with all my other whistles. I overcame this problem by ensuring that my RH is as relaxed as possible.
OK, so I haven’t tried any rolls on E. However (and I could be wrong) to me it seems likely that with increased skill and proficiency, I should be able to lift my RH pinkie automatically when playing rolls on E. So far, I haven’t learned any tunes that have them, but it seems reasonable because other players seem to be able to lift their RH pinkie during playing.
So, it is quite possible that there are many good approaches and that maybe you shouldn’t over-worry about it. It may even help by learning tunes like Morrison’s thoroughly at a slow tempo so that you can really concentrate on technique rather than rattle through it a speed hoping that fluffed notes and poor technique will not be noticed.
breqwas, are you ignoring my post, or do you just not want to leave extra
holes covered? You can play a whole scale with R3 covering its hole for
A, B and C if you need to, and never have to use your pinkie. Here’s the D
scale fingering that way:
XXXXXX D
XXXXX0 E
XXXX00 F#
XXX000 G
XX000X A
X0000X B
00000X C#
0XXXXX d
XXXXX0 e
XXXX00 f#
XXX000 g
XX000X a
X0000X b
00000X c#
XXXXXX d’
Well. I was told a few times that all sorts of lazy fingerings are good if you’re going to play tinwhistle and low whistle, but not so good if you’re going to move on to the flute. I don’t know if that’s true. Is it?
I was being overly sensitive. I was just about to come back and redact my
post before you saw it. Too late.
I think Grey Larson mentioned in one of his books that the “lazy fingerings”
are not desireable on the flute, especially when you have keys. But, the flute
does not have the same stabilization problem, so the only trick would be to
remember not to put those lower fingers down when playing the flute.
I don’t use them all the time on the whistle, anyway; only when it makes
it easier to move between notes. So it’s not like it becomes necessary to
always put R3 down when playing B. You have to be flexible and use
whatever works for a particular passage.
I never use my pinkie. It’s unnecessary IMO and would just make right hand fingerings more awkward. Then again, I use whistles with the standard elongated plastic mouthpieces, so you might need a little extra stability if you’re playing something like a Clarke original.
FWIW, you could try stabilising full time with your L little finger instead/as well - shouldn’t disrupt anything else (just possibly A rolls, so lift it for those) and probably won’t be a problem if & when you shift to flute…
I looked at your video and, apart from the obvious unfamiliarity-affected bits, couldn’t really see a problem with what you’re doing. I’m not sure even after that why you can’t reach with your R little finger - your hands don’t look particularly unusually conformed. Just arching the other R fingers more would bring your palm and therefore your little finger in closer, of course. The twisting movement you mention does look a bit exaggerated, would be better avoided and can probably be reduced, though as long as it doesn’t upset timing or accurately placing fingers on holes it doesn’t actually matter, I’d say. These things are all about practise and habit, and once you’ve conquered a particular difficulty it swiftly becomes hard to remember why it was a problem! So to that extent I disagree with Whiddler, and also regarding the mouthpiece/beak shape - one should only have the very tip resting just between ones lips whatever ther design!
Perhaps the way to approach this is to get that flute with an Eb key, learn to use it and work back from there!
I said I’d dig out some other links to demos of mine which may be helpful - so here they are - they weren’t directed at the issue in question, but may be of some help - they certainly show that I’m not totally consistent and that, as fearfaoin suggests, one does what works in particular contexts. However, I would advise against using R3 as a stabiliser if you can (find a way to) comfortably use R4. Once the counter and combined movements are habitualised, it avoids any interference by shading notes by closing a tone-hole that ought to be open etc. as well as being better prep for fluting.
Now, after 1.5 years of doing that all wrong, I decided to change to the right way.
Well to me, it seems the “right” way is the way that works best for you. I do not stabilize the whistle using my bottom hand pinky, but rather my ring finger. This is what works best for me. I’m not saying either method is worse or better.
I’ve been practicing this method for so long now that I don’t even think about doing it, my fingers just “know” where they need to be and when, which only comes with lots of practice and experience/time.
Generally speaking I usually employ the bottom hand ring finger on the E hole for playing notes B, and C#. Works best for C# obviously. Although in faster tempos or tricky passages, I’ve found myself employing pipe fingering, but that’s another can of worms… And I play pipes so that’s that anyway.
Best of luck whichever you decide works for you. But for what it’s worth, I’d really think about what technique you want to use, and stick to it. Time spent re-learning techniques can be time wasted. Or may confuse the bejebus out of you. Moral of the story is, try to get it right the first go around, may save you loads of heartache down the road.
I find placing an industrial strength magnet in the back of my shirt collar works well, but only for stabilising metal whistles. It does tend to give me an industrial strength migraine though, but everyone suffers for their art. For plastic whistles, try smearing a film of superglue over your lips before playing.
