Hi gang,
I want to start doing some multi-track digital recording so I can make CDs of the family band.
Are any of you doing any of that? If so, what are you using?
Thanks,
Doc
Hello Doc,
The possibilities are endless, as I’m sure you know. But since you asked what others use, I’ll give you my list:
SOFTWARE:
-
- Nuendo2; for multitracking and mixing
- plugins mostly TC Native bundle, which includes an EQ, Compressor, Reverb and Limiter.
- CoolEdit Pro for mastering
- plugins there mostly Stereo Expansion, PSP Mixpack and/or Sony Wavehammer
HARDWARE:
-
- M-Audio Delta 1010LT soundcard. It has 10 ins/outs. Less will do, but the 24bit / 96khz samplerate is essential for digital recording.
- PC with windowsXP, 512mb RAM and 2.2Ghz processor.
- Behringer Ultragain Tube preamp.
- ADK GC-1e condenser microphone (more mics coming soon
I’d like to add that I am only just starting on this and that some of the software would have been out of my reach were it not for a generous friend who owns a studio and gave me a prof-starter-kit on ‘loan’.
I’m having a great time with all this. There is loads to learn and a whole new appraoch to sound. Apart from the technical learning curve I found myself listening to commercial recordings with different ears. How does it sound? How is the balance of the mix? How the HECK do you make a flute sound so good? (not talking about the playing here).
So I have been trying to record myself on flute and recorded some songs together with my wife, which was great fun.
Would be better if others took care of the buttons when I’m playing myself though, it’s hard to concentrate on either when trying to do both.
If you want to record your band different places a laptop or a portable harddisc recorder might be a better option for you.
All the best,
Jeroen
This is a really open-ended question, depending on how serious you want to get and the resources you have to throw at it. If you’re looking at something at no cost greater than a good sound card and a good microphone, check out Audacity:
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
Beware of the kind of sound card you get bundled with your computer - the mic preamp is woeful. Headroom should never be a problem with a mic preamp, but yes, the standard el-cheapo sound card mic preamp goes into overload at about 70% of full modulation (no matter where you set the gain). Background noise is also unbelievably high. If at all possible use an external preamp (even an old-fashioned taperecorder in Record-Pause mode!) and go in to the sound card via the line input.
Any recording can only be as good as the input signal. Spending priorities should be a good microphone, a good preamp and a good soundcard. Only then worry about software.
And remember the requirements for a recording mic are considerably different to the requirements of a stage mic.
Terry
You can also get a surprising amount of interference in sound quality from cables, computer fan etc.
If your computer has external speakers, turn them off. Large amounts of RAM are better, keep mic cables etc. separated from power cables. Much more to it than that, but those are easy fixes.
I second Terry’s recommendation of Audacity. I use it with a large diaphram condeser mic, a Behringer tube ultragain preamp into a Behringer UB-802 mixer. I use the stock soundcard in my computer, but macs come with really good stock soundcards so that’s not really an issue at this point for me.
Mic placement is also important, especially if you are recording people together.
Terry’s right - audacity is a wonderful program, easy to use, and free. I’d try it before buying anything.
Eric
I would have to respectfully disagree here. Great results can be had using 16-bit 44.1 or 48 samplerates. As others have pointed out, the signal path is the most important factor to get right. I agree with ditching the mic pre on most soundcards - always use an external pre-amp and the line in. One of the most overlooked aspects of recording is the microphone placement. 1 hour spent getting the placement right is worth 5 hours of messing about with EQ when you try to mix it.
So, my basic requirements for digital recording would be:
A good condenser mic (although I would not discount dynamics, great results can be achieved with the right placement.)
A decent pre-amp (or the pre-amp stage on most budget mixers will suffice.
Any reasonable soundcard that has good audio specs.
Any of the multi-track software packages previously mentioned. I am spoiled in that I use Logic Audio Platinum but I do hear good reports on Audacity.
I note that the requirement was to record a “family” group. The number of simultaneous tracks you wish to record will have a bearing on any mixer or soundcard that your choose. There are plenty of small 4-channel mixers (Berhinger & Soundcraft spring to mind) and also lots of good multi in/out soundcards. Me, I would relish the opportunity to mix them live and record them to 2 tracks thus proving I am the re-incarnation of Brian Wilson…even though he’s not dead!
Cheers,
Graham (now dropping acid and sitting in his sandbox!)
That’s a cool little trick I’ll have to try. My PC’s preamp is pretty abysmal. Though now I have a Mini-Disk and use that more.
Cheers,
Aaron
Audacity has a nice feature that allows you to create a noise profile by selecting a few seconds of audio, then romoving everything with that profile from the recording. So, if you take the few seconds of nothing but backround noise before the music actually starts on your track, create a profile, Audacity will scrub all that out. It certainly is best to start with as little as possible though. Good preamp, mics and levels on the sound and gain in help. With recording on software, it’s best to mix as much as possible BEFORE the sound reaches the software. External mixing and sound adjustments will always be better than what most software can do.
I agree with BMFW, the highest rate I can record at is 44.1 and it sounds great. But, I also use a tube preamp, a high quality mic and a good mixer before anything gets to the computerr.
OK, maybe essential wasn’t the right word.
Great results can be had at 16bit/44.1kHz.
I just reckon that if you’re going to make adjustments and changes to the recording, best to do it at the highest samplerate you can get. Then make a mixDOWN to 16bit for CD burning.
People mention Audacity. I always thought it was an audio editor and not a multitrack program!? 
Audacity allows you to mix tracks, edit, etc. It’s a remarkable piece of freeware.
Eric
Indeed it is an audio editor and not a multitrack program, but you can use it to build up multiple tracks and subsequently mix them down to stereo. So a single mic, with a reasonable preamp and stereo soundcard can achieve multitrack.
That’s often the modus operandi even if you have a multichannel card and multiple cards, as spillage between mics makes editing dodgy (unless you have a vocal booth, drum booth, etc at your disposal - a.k.a. the kitchen, the lounge, the back porch, etc) and the foldback system needed to use it.
So, a typical way to proceed would be to record the entire group, or the main part of it, on one channel (proceeded by someone counting in 1, 2; 1, 2, 3, -), then recording all the separate parts in sync with the original track. Later contributions are often better recorded using a mix of the new tracks as the reference (as pitch or timing may have altered).
You need to put a lot of thought into the strategy - very hard to add rhythm instruments later for instance. Important to have closed “over-the ear” cans as spill through “on the ear” headphones can be a real issue with vocalists, flute, whistle etc.
A low noise preamp with adequate headroom is really important for unaccompanied flute recordings as the “masking effect” is limited to the octaves in which there is significant content, and that leaves a lot of octaves contributing noise. Also, keep in mind the cumulative effect of noise on each recorded track being mixed into the final.
If you want to get really serious, look for a preamp with a digital output and a sound card with the same type of digital input. That will prevent any of the computer noise getting into the system. Needless to say, you also need to keep the computer cooling system noise getting into the mic.
Terry
MBB
Boy, I agree there. I’ve got a nice set of AKG closed headphones (you can’t hear anything outside of the headphones) but I’ve been using a Shure headphone mic for recording. Well, the headphone mic was picking up my other tracks because they were being transfered by the case materials from the headphones through the mic arm.
As to the topic at hand, I’ve been using the Tascam US-224. I made a family Christmas album a couple of years ago with it. It’s got all the inputs that I need and will record two tracks at once with the right software (I like Adobe Audition, but it is definately not free). I would get the US-424, if I were to do it again. I would also position your computer in another room.
Another option to look at is the Pocket PC’s. They have no fan noise and they now have CF cards that accept digital sound input. Again, that’s not cheap, but it is effective. I’d say that for less than $1000 you could have a great system. I’ve used mine to record sessions, but I have not yet plunked the money down to get the higher bit-rate equipment (I just use the internal mic for sessions which obviously would not work when trying to record high quality audio).
Another option still is the Marantz digital sound recorder. I know that Michael Eskin just purchased one so he may be able to help you with that. I’ve looked at them before and considered getting one myself.
Best,
Erik
I have Cakewalk Home Studio 2004, and I would recommend it if I could ever figure out how to use it with any degree of comfort. I downloaded Audacity, and it seems to be more my speed. Thanks, Terry, for the link. I am used to the old analogue days when I plugged a microphone into my tape recorder and started recording. With all of the plug-ins and software connected with digital recording, it all seems so complex. Without a cell phone or a DVD player, I sometimes feel that the world is leaving me behind.
I do have a question about microphones. The room where I have my computer and where I would like to record is near a busy street with a lot of street noise. Right now I am using a uni-directional Shure-copy (Chinese) dynamic microphone, which eliminates most of the street noise. Is there a low-cost condenser microphone that would be better for my recording needs in my noisy recording situation?
Hmmm, tricky. The old saying applicable here is: “The wider you open the window, the more dirt blows in”. Translated, the wider the system bandwidth, the more noise you’ll collect. The Shure copy will be very good at minimising “noises off”, but at a high price - it will also alter the sound considerably. These mics are designed for ultraclose vocal use and roll off from about 1kHz downwards in free field.
Any reasonable quality cardioid (unidirectional) condenser mic will have a far better frequency response (for recording work). But given your noise situation, you will still need to record as closely as you can. If you can determine a particular source for the noise (eg a particular window) turn the mic’s back on it to take advantage of the rear rejection. (Test this by recording background nooise while rotating the mic.) Make sure you get a windshield for close flute work (a foam one or one of those fine net covered rings that clamp on the mic stand, or both!). If you have wooden floors be aware that traffic noise may be conducted mechanically into the mic through the stand - a sheet of foam rubber under the stand, and or a vibration mount for the mic will help here. (Test this by recording background noise then lifting the stand onto a pillow.)
If possible, try to borrow some mics from your music shop (leave a credit card impression as security). Record some playing on each mic, including the Shure copy, with 10 seconds of silence after each. Use Audacity’s sharp cutoff filters (high and low pass) to minimise the noise without messing up the signal and compare the sounds you get.
If the noise in the room is broadly located (rather than say through one window), you might find a hypercardiod mic helpful (if you can find one!) These reject more ambient sound in general but don’t have the full cancellation at the rear. Don’t go for the shotgun type though - you end up with the capsule further away and therefore less signal strength.
Hope some of that helps.
Terry
Terry, thanks for taking the time to give a thorough response to my question. It was very helpful to me, and I am sure it will be helpful to others, as well.
Following the suggestions in this thread, I have purchased a condenser mic off of ebay, but I still have a question as to how to set all of the controls on the microphone preamp/mixer to minimize noise and maximize a higher quality audio for recording solo flute. The MXL 990 (Chinese) is a large diaphragm studio condenser mike with the squirrel-cage support. I have it going into a little Behringer 1002 preamp/mixer with phantom power for the mic, and from there directly into the factory-installed integrated audio port for microphone on my computer running XP . I am using the audacity audio freeware program to record.
Monitoring the audio input on the audacity control panel, there are numerous ways to increase the input to a satisfactory level. There is a microphone input level slider tab on the audacity control panel. However, the mixer has eight different knobs that control the quality and level of the input. This is where I begin to get confused. Here are the controls that I have on the mixer:
Main mix slider for volume control
Microphone gain (10 to 60 dB)
EQ 12 kHz (-15 to +15)
MID 2.5 kHz (-15 to +15)
LO 80 Hz (-15 to +15) with LO cut button
FX (-00 to 0 to +15)
PAN (left to right) for mono recording
Level (-00 to 0 to +15)
Including the input level slider on the audacity control panel, there are three controls on the mixer that affect the level of microphone input. Does it matter how this is accomplished? For example, is low microphone gain and a higher level setting preferable to the opposite, which would be a higher microphone gain with a lower level setting? With regard to the equalizer settings, what would be ideal, as a starter, for mono-recording of solo flute? Any help would be appreciated.
In general, the aim is to get the level up as soon as possible and have as little as possible in the signal path. So firstly, I’d look for a way to get the signal out of the mixer before it joins the mix. I.E. we’re looking for a way just to use the mixer’s mic preamp. Is there an “insert” connector or an “out” for each channel? If so, come out of there rather than put up with noise and distortion added by the rest of the circuitry. If it’s a single connector, it might be a “ring, tip & sleeve” style jack, in which case the output is likely to be the “ring” and the sleeve earth.
If you can use such an “out”, the only significant control is likely to be the mic gain. Feed a CD player to the Line In on your sound card and set the Audacity Line In gain control for good levels (high but never hitting OdB). Now connect the mixer out to the same place instead. Adjust the mic gain for similar levels from a mic. If distortion occurs, pull down the mic gain and up the audacity control. Remember our aim is to keep the levels up unless we hit distortion.
If you’re forced to use the rest of the mixer, make sure all other inputs are down and if possible deselected. Set the channel fader to 0dB, and the master channels to 0dB. Centre the channel Pan control. Bring the mic channel mic gain up to show good levels (as close to 0dB as possible) on the mixer meters. Connect the L and R outputs of the mixer to the Line ins on the sound card. Adjust Audacity to good levels.
With regard to the equalizer settings, what would be ideal, as a starter, for mono-recording of solo flute? Any help would be appreciated.
These will probably only work if you come from the main mix. I’d set the EQ flat (all to centre, ie 0) in the first instance, or bypass if there’s a button. Once you have made a recording, use one of Audacity’s equalisers to play with the tone quality so you can listen attentively to the replay. If you come to a conclusion other than flat, note the settings and transfer them to the mixer. Record again, remember to cancel the audacity controls and make sure you get the same result.
Terry
Thank you, Terry. The information that you provided is exactly what I was looking for. I’m sure that many other people were interested in your thoughts, as well.