Some words of advice needed...

Irish Flute
1

Hi all - first posting on here for quite a while! For various reasons I’ve not been playing flute for some time but for the last few months I’ve started taking it seriously again - doing about two hours a day in chunks of about 15 minutes throughout the day (thank you, early retirement!).

So I only have one flute - but it’s a good 'un - a keyless blackwood by Chris Wilkes - and I know it will do me for years to come, but I see many players using keyed flutes for Irish music. On the other hand I’m told that you don’t really need keys to play trad, so I’m confused.

I know that the top makers have really long waiting lists (10 years?!) so I was thinking of getting my name down early for a keyed flute if I need it. But how many keys does one really need to play trad? I did a search for this but found nothing in the archive which is surprising.

Second part of my query is - I have no teacher (there are no flute players of any kind which don’t involve a long ferry crossing - I live in the Hebrides) and I’m worried about getting into bad habits. I know these are easier to deal with early on before they become ingrained, so is there anything I should be particularly watching out for/ working on, or any recommended resources such as online lessons where I can submit videos etc.

I listen to a lot of flute players but I’m still never sure if I’m getting the tone right (I particularly admire Kevin Crawford’s tone - my daughter describes his tone as ‘clear’ and mine as ‘fluffy’) - and I still keep running out of breath in the middle of a phrase which is very frustrating. I played fiddle for years until I was forced to stop due to shoulder pain - interesting that I get no discomfort at all from the flute… I’m really watchful for undue tension in the shoulders, fingers etc so hopefully that helps.

Anyway, I’d be very glad of any advice.

Thanks
Rhod

p.s. I bought one of Jem’s picolos and I think it’s helping my embouchure but that second octave is like an offensive weapon (in my inexperienced hands anyway)!

2

I see many players using keyed flutes for Irish music. On the other hand I’m told that you don’t really need keys to play trad, so I’m confused.

I’m sure someone more knowledgeable will be along shortly, but in the meantime, my tuppence worth.

Many players may used keyed flutes, but how many of them actually use the keys when playing Irish music? I guess if you’re a competent flute player and your favourite (only?) flute is an instrument with keys, then you’d use it irrespective of needing the keys or not … just my thoughts, not preaching :wink:

Quite possibly instances of flautists who play many genres of music, including Irish, else needing to play in a “non-standard” key to fit in with a singer … again, just thinking :slight_smile:

3

First - welcome back!

I’m sure you’ll get lots of responses to the “keys” question and there are other threads that address the issue, but here goes… You can play about 95% of Irish music on an unkeyed flute (but you probably already knew that). I have a fully-keyed (8-key) John Gallagher that I love, but I’ll be honest - the keys are most useful for keeping it from rolling off a table! It is really nice, however, to have the keys when you really need them, which is actually fairly seldom in my group with the music we play. The one that I DO use a lot, however, is the C-nat key - it gives a much fuller sound than either half-holing or cross-fingering. In order of use, the next is probably the G# key (for playing tunes in A) and then the F-nat key(s) (for playing tunes in F). I have noticed that I am using the low C-nat key a bit when accompanying songs lately, but that doesn’t get a lot of use (but it LOOKS really cool!). That’s pretty much “it” for over 99% of the music we normally play. All bets are off if you wander away from ITM, though. I sometimes play the black flute instead of the silver one at church and then I often need the Bb and Eb keys.

As far as bad habits, there are a few teachers out there on the WWW that are offering lessons - you may try that route. Blayne Chastain (the original owner of my flute, btw) is probably the most well-known, but I’m sure there are others that could accommodate you using Skype or the Google equivalent.

Last - tone is up to you. I like my tone - it’s not as “brash” as someone like Conal O’Grada or as smooth as Grey Larsen, but it’s mine. I also prefer to play with a little less ornamentation than some, but that’s the way -I- like it, too! My advice is just to find what you’re comfortable with and live with it.

Best of luck and keep us posted!

Pat

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As Plunk111 mentions, there have been a number of threads about the use/value of keys on “our kind of flutes”. Here’s one for starters https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/thinking-about-my-next-flute-and-have-lots-of-questions/76207/3

Expect to get lots of varied input…

Best wishes.

Steve

5

Lessons: You don’t need lots of lessons, IMO. Just a couple at the beginning to get the basics and avoid bad habits,
then the occasional lesson (even one a year) after that. So traveling for a single lesson, if it isn’t a vast distance,
is sensible. I have driven five hours one way for a lesson on occasion, none being available where I live.
After that there are workshops at festivals and Tionals.

And the long and short of it is that, while keys are nice to have, you don’t need them for ITM. A good keyless
flute will do. Also, an alternative for a C natural key, if you feel you need something there, is a thumbhole,
which can be put in for thirty dollars (or whatever) by a good flutemaker. You arrange to send the flute
to the maker with a mark on the flute where you usually place your thumb (of course supposing you are
using classical grip) so that the hole will be well placed. It’s possible to half-hole or cross finger
other notes. takes practice, but the need seldom arises. Lots of fine players at festivals play keyless
flutes. What matters is a good flute.

6

Whether you want keys really depends on the kind of tunes you are drawn toward. I barely touched the keys for 25 years, but I’m playing these days with an East Galway style fiddler (lots of Fahy compositions, tunes in Dm, etc.), and in some of our sets I am using 7 of the 8 keys on my flute.

As for tone, I’m not big on exercises in general but this is the one area where I make an exception. I’m pasting below some instructions from an email I just sent to a friend who was also asking for tips on improving tone. Note that people who favor a relaxed embouchure would disagree with some of my explanation below, but I think working toward the goal of achieving quiet, pure, non-breathy harmonics can improve your tone in regular playing no matter how you blow your flute.

I learned this technique from a friend who learned it from Jean-Michel Veillon, the Breton flute player. Jean-Michel refers to it as “the keys to the kingdom,” because it develops your embouchure in such a way that it can make just about everything else (tone, tuning, breath control, etc.) come together on the flute like magic. Basically what you do is play one-handed scales, starting in the second octave, and using harmonics to get the notes above second-octave G.

What’s a one-handed scale? You leave the fingers of your top (left) hand down the entire time, and play the whole scale with just the bottom three holes using your right hand. If you imagine o as an open hole and x as a closed hole, it looks like this:

xxx xxx (second-octave D)
xxx xxo (second-octave E)
xxx xoo (second-octave F#)
xxx ooo (second-octave G)
xxx xxx (second-octave A, achieved by blowing a harmonic --I’ll explain below)
xxx xxo (second-octave B, harmonic)
xxx xoo (second-octave C#, harmonic)
xxx ooo (third-octave D, harmonic)

The harmonics are the keys to the kingdom. You get them by tightening your embouchure and blowing with a very focused stream, not blowing harder but faster/more concentrated. At first these notes will probably sound loud and breathy, but your goal is to get them to sound quiet and pure, with as little air noise as possible. If you work on this every day, or even every other day, or even just a few times a week, just for 10 minutes or so, it can do wonders for your tone.

I think what this amounts to is weight-lifting for your mouth muscles – it strengthens them in a way that allows you to achieve a strong, focused tone in the first two octaves of the flute, and you find that as your tone improves, everything else on the flute sounds better: the flute sounds more in tune with itself and you have more control in general.

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You can hear Jean Michel Veillon describing that by following this link http://users.skynet.be/berkenhage/ then taking the Music tab. I can’t remember exactly which of the JMV sound clips it is but they are all worth a listen.

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I listen to a lot of flute players but I’m still never sure if I’m getting the tone right (I particularly admire Kevin Crawford’s tone - my daughter describes his tone as ‘clear’ and mine as ‘fluffy’) - and I still keep running out of breath in the middle of a phrase which is very frustrating. I played fiddle for years until I was forced to stop due to shoulder pain - interesting that I get no discomfort at all from the flute… I’m really watchful for undue tension in the shoulders, fingers etc so hopefully that helps.

Anyway, I’d be very glad of any advice.

Thanks
Rhod

Hi Rhod,

I hope I can be helpful!

Proper embouchure is the key to producing a nice tone. Are you making sure that your lip aperature is symmetrical and certainly no wider that the flute embouchure hole?

Lower notes seem to be trickier for new players on the flute. For any low notes, you want to make sure that you stretch your lips at the corners, covering about a fourth of the mouth hole and directing the air downward. Any air that is not focused will cause breathiness and waste valuable air, especially in the lower notes. You hear so many great flute players out there playing a dry and less “airy” tone, so why wouldn’t we want to access more air and less effort on our part?

I play “long tones” on the wooden flute. Starting on the second octave A note, take a large breath, using the diaphragm (not military, chest-heaving style) and play the note in tune for as long as you run out of breath. Work your way down the the notes to the low D…why do I do this and why do I make my students do this?

  1. Developing the embouchure. Each note has it’s own personality, and you have to adjust your embouchure to create the notes with a good tone.
  2. Expand and develop your diaphragm. Develop a supported sound with bulk and depth, not just a frivolous thread of sound.
  3. Create RESONANCE- I try and imagine my body to be as hollow as possible and think of blowing up through the floor. You are the source of the flute’s sound, NOT the other way around.


    Keyless flutes are wonderful for learning and playing Irish tunes in any setting. In fact, they sound the purest as their intonation is not tampered with by placing keys on them…go for it.
    If you have any questions, i would be glad to help!

I teach Skype online, I have students in Boston, Chicago, and here in NYC. Let me know :wink: e helpful for you!

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Possible, yes, but generally a poor and awkward substitute for the keys…

What matters is a good flute.

Won’t make the slightest difference when asked to do what’s beyond it!

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Thanks for posting this up, David. I used to play the overtone series religiously on the 12 keyed flute, but never knew how to translate it to a wooden flute…rad.

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Thanks for posting the fingerings for practicing the overtone series on the wooden flute!

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Rhod-
Have you taken a look at Conal O Grada’s flute tutorial? I’ve had the same problems with running out of breath, and Conal starts the book with a chapter about breathing that I’ve found very helpful. He has a section where he analyses tunes from other players (which are included on the book’s CD). He includes a detailed breakdown of where they add breaths. I’ve been working with the book for only a few days, but it’s already changed the way for the better.

June McCormack’s Fliut can also be good. It’s really just a book of tunes with settings that help you learn articulation and ornament, but if you ignore the notation and learn from the included recordings you can learn a lot about how to add space to breath.

Brad-
The exercise you describe looks very interesting. Those are actually tabor pipe fingerings. I knew that you could use them on a tinwhistle, but it never occurred to me to try it on a flute.

-Tom

13

I use keys very often. There are plenty of D minor and A major tunes, G minor are less common but there are some. There are very few tunes that require an Eb key, but I’m now using it quite often on E minor tunes to give some extra power to the E note, that is the weakest on our flutes. Using low keys is fun. And of course the high C key is very useful for ornamentations and for a stronger C.

This being said, if you’re a beginner you may want to wait some time before getting a keyed flute (if you ever feel that you need one). I wouldn’t bother getting on a maker’s list unless you have very specific needs or tastes, there are plenty of great second hand flutes around at reasonable prices. When the time comes, you can sell your Wilkes, they get crazy good prices because Chris’ waiting time is about 10 years, you’ll probably be able to buy a keyed flute from the selling.

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With a good Delrin for knock-about as well…

Best wishes.

Steve

15

Thanks for all the brilliant replies all! I will read through carefully…

I had a go at the one handed scale - that 3rd octave D is tough. I got all the rest, but you’re right - hissy and loud!

I can see the many benefits of tightening up the embouchure, but as far as I can make out I can get the harmonics (well, most of them) either with the dry blowing-more-down-into-the-embouchure approach or with the blowing across more ‘tooty’ sound :slight_smile: So I guess this is where choice comes in? If I relax my embouchure I get ‘toot’ but if I stiffen everything up I get the ‘nyah’ which to me sounds preferable - but I can’t imagine keeping that up for very long without getting face cramp! Maybe I just need to ‘man up’ and get used to it? :astonished:

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I know what you mean about Chris’ flutes, but I would never sell it (for personal reasons) so I just better get saving. I’m still debating whether to sell my 1925 Scottish fiddle because I think I’m going to have to bite the bullet and give it up - it just hurts my shoulder so damn much. It would be an act of committment to the flute too - like boat-burning!

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Cramping faces are normal when practising embouchure…I guess every flute player has gone through that :wink:

Does your Wilkes have a fully lined headjoint? When teaching, I found that people often have an easier time when the flute’s balance point is about halfway down the flute, near the left hand’s touching point. On keyless flutes, a lined head often moves the balance point towards the headjoint, making the flute head-heavy, which has to be taken care of while playing…and many beginners are stressed by that. I made a new partially lined headjoint for a friend who had just that problem, and she was able to play much more effortlessly afterwards. Basically that just removed one cause of cramping, but the lesser the better. Just a thought, though - I guess having a partially lined headjoint made by Chris might take a few years.

Anyway, the advice given in this thread is very useful, I especially like JMV’s harmonic exercises. You can knock out quite a few tunes with those basic fingerings, and it absolutely helps for tone.

Regarding keys, I personally use all eight keys on my flute because my first flute actually was an eight-keyer, so I just got used to it - however when people ask me for advice regarding keys, I recommend getting long F, Bb and G#, and if you want the full chromatics, Eb. Those four keys enable you to play in every key.

Short F is useful for a few things, but if you start out learning keys from scratch anyway, it’s easy to learn just using long F for everything. The only interval that really doesn’t work is G#-F, and I don’t know a single tune that uses it (for the record, F-#G works nicely).

C natural is a key that is nice to have, but you have quite a number of cross-fingered C naturals available on your flute and at least one will work nicely. I use the C key for ornamentation of A and B, creating a “cran” by cutting the note and tapping the C key, and for the highest note in a certain phrase, for example in the first bars of Rakish Paddy and Star Of Munster, but only because I have it…when playing a keyless flute or whistle, I don’t miss it.

Low C# and C are also nice to have and there are a few tunes that need them, especially C major tunes and a few in D dorian/mixolydian. But the cost outweighs the benefit - I wouldn’t recommend getting them if money’s tight and you come from a keyless flute or whistle. If you can afford them effortlessly, get them. I’d weigh their importance higher than C natural (high) or short F.

So that’s my two pfennig…

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Hi Rhod,

Good luck with the flute I think it’s worth getting some one to one tuition if possible - if I’d done so early on I would have saved a lot of time.

Here are a few resources that may be useful.

Majella Bartley free video lesson here is worth downloading

http://www.oaim.ie/free-lessons/flute

I found the James Galway workshop videos on youtube interesting

I found this article and others of Terry’s very useful

Tone and how to get it - on Terry McGees page here (and his other stuff)
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Nicholson_on_Tone.htm

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There’s so much really good stuff here that it’s going to take a while to go through it all - but thanks very much for your incredibly helpful responses! :thumbsup:
Rhod

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Brad, thanks for the reminder on that wonderful harmonics exercise. I had forgotten about that one during my long layoff and it’s a great exercise to add back into my playing as I work to get my embouchure back up to snuff. Much appreciated.

Loren