So I just got back my Firth, Pond & Co. flute from Jon C. Beautiful work making a new hj and barrel. Flute looks astounding!
I am a little distressed however in that I cannot seem to get a good solid low end… Now, to be fair, this is a new embouchure cut, and I am planning on giving it a few weeks to discover the nuances of it. The upper register sounds brilliant, as does the upper part of the lower register. I am thinking, maybe the pads haven’t seated completely, in addition to my unfamiliarity with the new cut? Anyway, just wanted to touch base with other owners of Jon C’s flutes (or Firth recuts) for some advice.
Arbo
Now, to be fair, this is a new embouchure cut, and I am planning on giving it a few weeks to discover the nuances of it.
That’ll be it then. Try practising long notes using just the head and barrel section (covering/uncovering the end with your spare end for variety) 10 minutes a day.
Sounds like a leak to me. We all know you can foghorn it, Arbo, so regardless of cut and needing to find your way with a new embouchure (valid concerns, for sure) I think you;d get the low register sounding tolerably even if not optimally unless there is a problem with the flute. I’d assume it left Jon in full and proper fettle, but you need (if you haven’t already) to give it a full and thorough examination in the circumstances. Disruptions in the post do happen. Do a visual check of all the keys and pads to make sure there’s no packaging debris under any of them, check the sockets and lappings too. Then do systematic suck tests, joint by separate joint and then in two-part assemblies and so on. I reckon you’ll find something has been knocked out of kilter.
All good points, Jem. New pads can be fickle even after being compressed for two weeks. A good indicator for leaks, try to play the Low C# note, if you have a leak, it will not sound.
Sometimes it takes longer then a day to get used to a new embouchure cut… 
The cut is a rounded oval, not an easy embouchure, but worth it in the long run.
Thanks for the replies! I have done a suck test and seems all is in order, though the foot joint I am not sure about…didn’t feel the same to me as the other sections (could be the pewter plugs?). Just tried Jon’s suggestion with the C# key, and it does sound albeit, weak… So, I am just going to relax and play it for the next two weeks and see if it is my lip or what.
Arbo
The flute looks great! Nice job on the cocus Jon!
BTW, this is what I sound like on The Firth after a day and a half. Sorry about the reverb (settings from a previous take of this tune on the Pratten).
The SheEp iN ThE bOAt (Firth, Pond & Co., Jon C. hj)
http://www.box.net/shared/zubpn6na52
and: the same tune on the Hudson Pratten w/ Abell hj.
http://www.box.net/shared/94vnqstskk
Arbo
Sounds nice Arbo. It sounds like you are more comfortable playing the Hudson, I take this is your primary instrument?
I would say the Firth sounds like a Rudall design and the Hudson sounds like a Pratten design. One is a large holed Pratten design, which might be a better flute for you, the other, a small/medium holed Rudall design, that has a sweet tone, but does not have that sharp crisp Pratten sound. I like the Firth sound myself, but I am not having to compete with banjos and bohdrans.
I think that if you were to just play the Firth for say 6 months, you would see a difference in the tone and volume. Rudall type flutes have to be played a little different then Prattens.
My two cents worth…
Noted, and I am on it!
Thanks again for the input and the lovely work. Now it’s my turn!
Arbo
Of what I’ve played and of what I own of his, Jon cuts a fun and interesting embouchure.
The more you play it the more you’ll get from it.
That’s what I imagined!
Here’s an update of Jon C’s hj for my Firth, Pond & Co. flute.
I have been spending a little more time with it!
Arbo
Wow, what a difference in the sound you’re getting after you have had time to get used to Jon C’s new HJ on the Firth/Pond, Arbo.
…and you found no leaks, pad or joint problems?
Paul
Thanks, but I am still not getting that clear hard ‘D’ when I want it, nor can I sustain it. Seem to get more of a diffused hard ‘D’ plus something else. I haven’t tested for leaks, though I suspect Jon did a thorough check before sending it out.
Arbo
Sometimes on the old flutes the joint sockets and tenons can be off. You might try adding a little plumbers tape to the ends of the tenons. Maybe they’re a bit leaky, or there’s turbulence in a socket where the tenon isn’t making contact fully. You may also have a pad leak, especially is there’s some small roughness or chipping in a seat. My Firth & Pond also is not the sort of honker that a larger hole flute is, the tradeoff seems to be that they play better in the 2nd and 3rd octave. My understanding is that the orchestral music of the day called for the flutes to play more up there, rather than the 1st octave, so these flutes aren’t designed to have as powerful a bottom end.
it took me a long while before to find the correct distance between headCorkstopper and slide and bottom notes…
but I’m far more happy now than in the last 2 years.
And also check if your pewter plugs are blocked or the plugs are free to spinning… sometimes this make a difference too.
Arbo
Have you tried the Firth with a head from another flute? You’ll probably need the head and the barrel, and you’ll probably have to shorten the slide gap considerably (by pushing the slide in) to get anywhere near the right pitch (Firth etc flutes tend to have pretty short heads). So make sure you are playing about the right pitch, or you could be misleading yourself!
And you will probably need a lot of thread or tape wrapped around the Firth upper tenon to fit the other barrel socket. So make sure that is airtight. But trying it might help to isolate the issue that seems to be bugging you.
My GLP models (based on Grey Larsen’s Firth & Pond) have a very willing bottom note, but they stop at D, so that note enjoys perfect venting. Pushing on down to C# and C is going to tame that response a bit, but it should still be reasonable.
Oh, one other thought, back on the topic of possible leaks. Always combine a suck test with a blow test. I’ve often come across the situation where a flute passed the suck test perfectly, but wouldn’t play reliably. The reason was that the suck pulled a pad that was almost sealing down onto the seat, temporarily giving a perfect seal. But in the playing mode, positive and negative cycles of pressure occur subsequently, and if the pad leaks on the positive, the flute will be weak. You should have to blow pretty hard to lift a pad off its seat.
The blow test (when performed by a human) isn’t as sensitive as the suck test, but it is important to rule out pads on the cusp of sealing. It’s one of the reasons I like the Magnahelic Flute Leakage detector. Not only can it detect the leakage in my fingerprint sworls, but it tests using a small positive pressure. No home should be without one!
Terry
Maybe I will have to pick up one of those Magnahelic Flute Leakage detectors, they look kind of cool. $425 is not to much to pay, to find a leak! I remember a sneaky leak that turned out to be a leak under a metal ferrule on the tone hole, where the shellac had crystallized.
This flute was carefully checked for leaks, the pads are new, so they may still need more compression. I usually find the problem keys being the Bb, G# or the Eb. The shorter keys have less leverage. The Eb can make a weak low D, you could try compressing them with wire tie wraps or rubberbands and see if it helps.
Arbo, as I wrote before, you really need to do the checks we’re all suggesting - I’d do them on any flute newly in my possession, especially if it came by post. I don’t doubt for a minute that Jon set it up properly and despatched it in that condition, but you cannot safely assume it has arrived in the same state. Apart from new pads still bedding in, even a very minor disruption not readily apparent to a cursory inspection could cause the symptoms you are experiencing. In the end there may not be any such issues, but you’ll save yourself a lot of effort and frustration by either eliminating the possibility of or finding and correcting any mechanical/structural issues.
Yeah, they are a bit dear, and not entirely necessary, but I find it useful, especially with restorations. It enables me to give clients an objective view of the effect of leakages detected, enabling them to decide more easily if the proposed repair is appropriate to them.
For example, after testing a flute, I might report:
Total Flute: MH7
Head crack: MH6
Barrel: MH0
LH pads: MH3.2
RH pads MH1.1
Foot keys: MH 4
To help make those figures meaningful, I also send them the following description:
Magnahelic Flute Leakage Detector
The Magnahelic Flute Leakage Detector is a device which was designed specially for flutes to detect the tiny amounts of leakage that can weaken the performance. It works by injecting a very small airflow at very low pressure into the flute via an extremely sensitive flow meter. All the keys on the flute are closed, and any other holes blocked with rubber bungs.
If the flute is airtight, no flow should be registered. It is of course difficult to guarantee perfect airtightness, so it’s more important to ensure adequate airtightness.
As a matter of interest, the Magnahelic Flute Leakage Detector is so sensitive that it can detect leakage through the fingerprint sworls on the tips of the player’s fingers!
This is what the readings mean:
8 - full scale, open hole, total leak
6 - really poor performance
4 - weakened performance
2 - maximum leakage that will not noticeably affect performance
0 - perfect airtightness.
Leaks are cumulative, so the total of leaks should not be allowed to exceed MH 2.
Terry
Thanks folks for the responses…
I shall try and get to the suck/blow test this week. In the interim, here is another take using the bottom end ( it was pointed out to me that a previous example did not make use of the lower end).
Give a listen a see if it sounds like I am hitting the bottom ‘D’.
Arbo