Yes, that´s exactly what I ment - it´s a stupid term.
By the way - since we´re trying to come up with something like definition - what is “highest level”
Besides - what if xyz (some well known great maker) has a “clone” (something of good skills too), who makes the same quality whistles, but he just started, has no real clients, has no reputation - yet he makes same quality whistles. His whistles are definitely not sought after by top artists…yet those whistles are more or less the same.
What I said was “professional level”. This shouldn’t present many intellectual hurdles to clear. I think Doc pretty well spelled it out. Cheers.
Do you imply that it’s OK for Irish music to be out of tune (I am sure you don’t but it follows a bit from what you’re saying) ? I can assure you it’s not. Isn’t it a basic requirement of an instrument that it can be played in tune? I think it is, I mean who wants to play music on an out of tune instrument?
Keyboard instruments as they are commonly tuned today are deliberately and intentionally out of tune in every key, by an equal amount in every key.
For a instrument which is going to play only in a handful of keys, exactly matching the pitch of a keyboard may not be your best standard as to what the phrase “in tune” means.
–James
I have met and heard a couple of old timers around your area, or closer to Doolin should I say, who seemed to be playing out of tune, very sharp, for other reasons than just not having an ear for tuning. Maybe to get heard a bit more, is such a thing common?
The phrase ‘professional whistle’ doesn’t appear in the post you
quote. The person needs ‘professional level instruments’ in general.
These are instruments that satisfy the needs of a professional
musician performing in groups.
Apparently s/he feels that a professional level whistle has these
features: It’s in tune, it’s tunable, it’s reliable…and I suppose
one would add that it’s audible and it sounds good when
played with other instruments; also
it has a ‘high level of playability.’ It plays well.
This seems an adequate answer to your question.
The phrase ‘professional whistle’ doesn’t appear in the post you
quote. The person needs ‘professional level instruments’ in general.
May I direct you back to my original post to look at the phrasing of the question?
These are instruments that satisfy the needs of a professional
musician performing in groups.
Apparently s/he feels that a professional level whistle has these
features: It’s in tune, it’s tunable, it’s reliable…and I suppose
one would add that it’s audible and it sounds good when
played with other instruments; also
it has a ‘high level of playability.’ It plays well.
This seems an adequate answer to your question.
These would seem to me the general minimum requirement for any whistle, nothing unusual. All whistles I regularly play meet those requirements.
Where does it say a professional ‘performs in groups’ or did you make that up yourself? I am curious, I want to know more.
New here…nice forum! Anyway, I’ve been playing/teaching music for 40+ years and have come to the conclusion that a professional grade instrument is one that has a ‘benchmark’ sound…like a Martin D-28, or Gibson F-5, or Powell/Haynes flute, etc. It’s built right and is playable and accurate across it’s range. It isn’t necessarily ‘easy’ to play but is flexible to the artist’s expressions. It should handle road and stage use. “Pro” doesn’t mean “classic”.
It has NOTHING to do with cost or price. My trusty Sweetone’s, Faedog’s, and homemade whistles get played for money, in front of audiences, and weekly in my church band. If I’m a “pro”, then my instruments are “pro” if I successfully use them in a ‘pro’ setting. I have expensive instruments and equipment that has failed to measure up, for me anyway, but they could be ‘pro’ to somebody. They were bought at a “pro” shop. I know another guitar teacher who’s classical guitar cost him $9 in the '70’s and he plays jazz and teaches on it to this day!
I’m an “amateur” radio operator as one of my hobbies, yet I help “professionals” with radio stuff, and my equipment is more ‘professional grade’ than their ‘commercial’ grade. Go figger!? The difference is that they can be paid and I can’t.
Are there “commercial” grade whistles?
Always remember…
“Amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic…”
With whistles, that expensive ‘pro’ sucker better be the benchmark sound from which my Clarke was to copy, only a high percentage better. 
When it’s in the hands of someone who has the professional skills to make it perform to its fullest potential… so… in a sense, it is all ‘hot air’… the hot air put through it by a great player.
On the other hand, and there are always ‘other hands’, in whose hands, a professional whistle, is just a whistle.
I, for one, own too many whistles, no few of which have the potential to be ‘professional whistles’, except that I’m not selling them.
The fellow is talking about ‘professional level whistles.’
You talk about ‘professional whistles,’ ‘professional grade
whistles’ and ‘professional looking whistles’. That’s less clear.
S/he writes; 'Since I often play with other musicians it is a rudimentry necessity that what ever instrument I play must play in tune and have a high level of “playabillity”. ’
This isn’t the claim that a professional must perform in groups,
but this fellow does and he sees a professional level whistle as
one that enables him to do so. Also it has the other features
I outlined.
Basically what you are doing is taking the issue out of the particular
context that gave it sense; also substituting less clear
language for what the writer actually used. That does create
the feeling of senseless talk. Otherwise it’s hard to see
a problem here.
It may well be that every whistle you regularly play
meets this fellow’s standard for a professional level
whistle. Certainly that’s the case for me.
This is a professional whistle, says so right on the package:
So is this:
Oh thats the “International Model”!
I was told that someone on another board read someone posted that THAT one was the best one to get.
While this one is tunable, it specifically is not “professional”, so you have to be careful, there are real scam-artists out there:
At least it says “Satisfaction Guaranteed” so you can send it back for revoicing if required.
I was waiting to see if you would jump on that.
Yes, I am aware of the compromises made in piano/KB tuning. But many songs are led by the KBs in my church, so other instruments have to be in tune with it. They don’t have a problem with it, and neither do some of my whistles:
Maybe playing quiet, slow passages with a KB makes the tuning of certain notes on certain instruments stand out more?
Whistles and other inanimate objects are not professional anything. People are professionals. Professionals are people who:
In a nut-shell, this means a professional is one who
always
does what he said he would do
when he said he would do it
for the price he quoted.
“Professional tools” are any tools a professional uses to get the job done. Being an expert in his field, the professional has the knowledge and skill to choose from a wide variety of tools and get the one just right for the job. Said tool may not be the most expensive one in the store.
In the US, “professional grade” is almost always a marketing slogan to get people to pay top-dollar for a medium-grade tool.
It’s my humble opinion that Wanderer’s statement should be examined more closely… In most of the wider music world one would not find instruments with brightly colored fipples. The “standard” color would be black unless the mouthpeice was made of wood or metal.
I’ve often wondered why Gens or Waltons etc would make the fipples green or red, they could have just as easily put black dye in the plastic. Obviously they were supossed to appeal to kids.
It just happens that ITM music, especially in it’s native lands has left such biases behind, in the wider world though most of us expect a tool used by a “professional” to both appear and function at a higher then average level. It’s true that this is a bias, but we all live with biases all around us everyday. Why should the world of music be any different?
As an example of one of the petty biases that we humans tend to have…
You walk into a lawyers office for an important meeting. He or She (a “professional”, supposedly) walks into the room wearing casual clothes, a baseball cap and writes with a bright green stick pen. Would you tend to think of this person as a “professional” ? They might be the best lawyer around, but our biases might still make us feel uneasy.
Admittedly it’s different where whistles are concerned because of the “laid back” and fun loving nature of this genre of music. Still, people sometimes have expectations of a “professional” instument, weather deserved or not that should at least be recognized.
I clearly remember Michael’s reply to a thread that asked ‘Just how good are you?’. At playing the dogwhistle?
I have no problem with red, blue or green parts on instruments, I have a healthy distrust of men in suits so those things don’t fly with me but I can see what you’re getting at. But then, I don’t mind red. blue or green whistle heads and I have never minded wearing vivid red shoes on the job.
Jim criticises language but still doesn’t seem to have gone back to the original question which I think is clear enough.
I agree fully that anything that gets the job done can claim ‘professional’ as a pre-fix. Hot-air, marketing and other terms come to mind. To me the term is essentially meaningless in a lot of contexts. It seems to carry pretension in thick layers (ever heard some one introduce himself with ‘I am a professional plumber’?).
I was waiting to see if you would jump on that.
Always happy to please and state the obvious. Seriously though, the player has his part to play where intonation is concerned and equal tempered and to equal tempered instruments are not that far apart the gap can’t be bridged while playing: at this point I play the same scale on the Sindt as I do on other whistles while when I first had it it was too equal tempered for me. Playing there should be a constant coordination between ear, breath and fingers to keep things where you want them, it’s part of a whistler’s (or any wind instrument player’s) skills. So if a whistle sounds OK for one type of music, it should also work for another.
I’m agreeing with Peter here. A professional chooses the “right” tool for the job. For a whistler, that might mean a red Generation in the local pub, a high-end whistle with exactly the sound the conductor is seeking for a gig with the symphony orchestra and a bright Sweetone with comic relief on a kazoo for an appearance at the local elementary school. The professional knows his audience and delivers the product (performance) they ordered.
Professional?
I always thought the term had its roots in commerce + trade.
Specifically, professional implied that others would be willing to pay money, in exchange, for goods or services.
Further, professional implies that someone is skilled enough at their craft that they can earn their living at it.
There are differences in quality. Once upon a time, I tried to paint a porch with a cheapie paintbrush. Then I tried a more expensive model. There was a world of difference. The more expensive model held more paint, required less work, and yielded a more even coat.
As applied to whistles, the first time I tried an expensive whistle, one thing that struck me was how easily it went up into the 3rd octave.