Sindt Whistle Waiting Times

He’s alive and well. Not so long ago Nick Metcalf met him at a festival (before the 'rona hit) and he looked way younger than his age on the pictures that Nick posted on FB. I wouldn’t bother him however. Just wait till you get the whistle. Maybe if it doesn’t show up after 6 months … But I think his waiting list is not that long at the moment.

Thank goodness! Excellent news! Thank you! I asked him for a D whistle, and Mr. John Sindt was very quick: he didn’t tell me if he makes other whistles and their prices. Do you know anything more? There are no websites of him about his artisan activity (?), he is very often busy and should not be disturbed, he does not have a secretary for business contacts (?), nobody created a website about him and his whistles (?), …

No website, no nothing. Just one man making whistles. I think he can make them ranging from Eb to Bb or maybe A. Not sure.

He’ll go to A (that’s what I just received), but not G… I did ask. :smiley:

Yup - the range he does is (low) A/Bb/B/C/C#/D/Eb/E (high). My Low-A is sitting in Boston awaiting a trip to Ireland. Covid-19 has delayed its shipment so far.

I’ve a buddy who has a most exotic JS “D” - an experimental body in titanium - a reward for a visit to JS’s workshop a couple of decades ago.

A few days ago I received the whistle I requested from Mr. Sindt. Everything good! He wrote me that now he makes whistles D and Eb and that he will do the others in a few months. I hope those months are very few. Meanwhile … I’ll wait! :slight_smile:

CPA

Oh boy! I am on his order list for a couple of whistles. Looks like you ordered a few weeks before I did so hopefully with you getting your whistle that means my name is getting close to the top. Hopefully sometime in October I’ll get them…

If they are a D and an Eb, most likely, otherwise your wait will be longer. However my position on the waiting list is always the same for other whistles by JS, so I’m still waiting.

CPA

I haven’t played penny whistle—yet—I plan to though. Please forgive this beginner question. It seems to me that D/G, C/F, Bb/Eb, Ab/Db, F#/B, E/A would cover all of the keys, since there is the nominal key of the whistle, plus another key a 5th apart as a result of the extra note. So I don’t understand your assertion that five penny whistles cover all keys. It seems like six penny whistles would be the minimum. Also the phrase “within one sharp/flat of a whistle in the bag” doesn’t convey any meaning to me. I’m not doubting the truth of what you say, but I’m not comprehending it.

There are 2 other major scales that you can play fairly easily on a whistle and only miss 1 note. On a D whistle, these are

A major: every note but the G#

C major: every note but the F natural

Most whistle players would be comfortable enough playing in A, and possibly half-holing the G# if needed, or finding a substitute. I’d say the same for C, although it’s a little more awkward.

This means that the 5 whistles gbyrne mentions, Bb/B/C/C#/D, can cover all major keys with only a couple particularly awkward scales. Here’s a list of each key with the whistle(s) it could be played on in which fingering (given as the fingering equivalent on a D whistle, “G” fingering on a C whistle plays in F, on a B whistle plays in E, etc.).

C: C (D fingering), D (C fingering)

C#: C# (D)

D: D (D)

Eb: Bb (G)

E: B (G)

F: C (G), Bb (A)

F#: C# (G), B (A)

G: D (G), C (A)

G#: C# (A), Bb (C)

A: D (A), B (C)

Bb: Bb (D), C (C)

B: B (D), C# (C)

So, G# and A are the only two that don’t have at least one whistle that gives you a full scale, and in that you can pick whether you’d rather skip/halfhole the 7th or the 4th. It’s not perfect, but for the vast majority of gigs it’s good enough.

You really don’t want to be that guy/gal who shows up at a session with 5 or more whistles and changes whistles for every tune based on the key/mode.

If you learn to play the half holed or cross fingered G# on a D whistle, a high D and high C whistle are all you really need for probably 95% or more of the common session tunes.

Do you all really learn like 50 songs with 2-3 fingerings each? Or do you get to a point you can just wing it?

Yes, not just 50 tunes, but in my case and probably true for anyone who has been playing in sessions for multiple decades, more like 700 to 1000 tunes, the vast majority of which I play on standard ID whistle.

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Thank you very much! Since I don’t play yet, your answer goes a bit over my head, but I can see that after I learn to play the instrument I will be able to come back to your answer and utilize the information. Thank you for clarifying the question for me.

Learn to play a d whistle. It will stand you in good stead. As you are learning try also to learn by ear through a call and response sort of lesson. If you do not know how to read music it is best to learn to recognize each note learn on the staff. Before you know it reading music will be second nature. If you depend on whistle tabs I’d recommend you focus on a recognizing a note a week. Print out a page with the staff notes and the tabs. (libraries have printers even if most people don’t) Learn a tune with tabs. Pick a note to memorize and white out the tab. Every week pick out a new note and play that tune with the second note whited out. Before you know it you’ll read music.

kayakfit, I think your assertion is correct, but there are a couple of observations that may help to bring into focus some of the responses, which are talking about practical needs for Irish sessions.

The first observation is that some keys just don’t get used in this genre. And of the keys that do get used, a very large number of tunes are in D or G major. And while there are plenty of tunes in, say, B minor or A minor etc, if you look at the notes in B minor they are the same as D major (B minor is the relative minor of D major). And tunes in A minor, are often actually in A dorian mode, which has a raised 6th (F# instead of F) so also has the same notes are D major.

So when you look at the common modes of Irish tunes, you see that while the tonal center of the tune may be something other than D or G, the actual notes in the tune often are the same as those of D or G major and the tune is modal rather than being in a different major key. Simply put, the tonal center of the tune just isn’t the bell note of the whistle. Its a different note.

So that is one big observation that concentrates the vast majority of tunes around a D whistle, even though they are is many different keys and modes. But there are tunes in other keys that don’t quite fit well on a D whistle. A lot of Scottish tunes are in A major, for example. Here, you don’t have the G# available on a D whistle without half holing, but that isn’t a very difficult note to half hole, so a lot of players consider such tunes to still be accessible on a D whistle.

But not everyone likes this approach, and would rather, instead, use an E whistle, or an A whistle for tunes in A. Essentially, that are using the whistle as a transposing instrument. Playing a tune as if it were in G, but on an E whistle instead of a D whistle, makes it come out in A.

The other thing to bear in mind is that whistles in different keys have different voices, and sometimes it is refreshing to have that different voice. Some tunes just sound nicer in a certain key, so even though you could play them on a D whistle, you might choose a different whistle.

And whistles are relatively inexpensive, such that most people can afford to accumulate a quiver of whistles in different keys for whatever reasons motivate them. There is nothing wrong with having a bunch of whistles! But even if you have the full set, it doesn’t completely eliminate the need for half-holing or cross fingering notes, because there are plenty of tunes that have accidental notes, ie. the tune is in a particular key or mode, but contains an occasional note that isn’t in that key. In these cases, going to a whistle of a different key often won’t help you.

Personally, I think it helps to start by understanding the various modes that are available on a D whistle (D major, G major, B minor, A dorian, E minor, E dorian, D mixolydian, etc), and learn a bunch of tunes in these modes on your D whistle. Then think of your whistles in other keys as transposing instruments, not just of the major key, but of all the modes too. Then you can immediately take the skills you already have a get the tunes to come out in other keys/modes.

Then experiment with half holing various accidentals etc. And eventually, explore playing tunes that are in modes that the whistle is not really designed for, by half-holing etc. In my mind, this is a more advanced skill that makes it harder to maintain the same level of musicality (when you don’t have the dexterity etc). In a noisy session environment it won’t matter, and perhaps the convenience of not having to switch whistles is more important, but this isn’t always the case.

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That is a really good answer. Although I don’t play penny whistle, I do play clarinet, so I am familiar with the relative minor keys of the major scales. I also use lots of alternative fingerings and blow notes into tune as needed. This will be a new adventure!

Do people do this? Seems like way more trouble than it’s worth.

I’ve got whistles in a bunch of keys in my bag, but the D whistle is all I use 90% of the time. The others are mostly for gigs with singers, or different-key sessions (Eb, playing with flat sets, etc.).

Yes, people actually do this.

It’s not common but something I’ve experienced a few times at our sessions.

Yes Michael I’ve seen that, newbies to whistle thinking that they’re locked into the “six finger note” or nominal key of the whistle

XXX|XXX D (D Major using open C#)

while with that same D whistle you have, with open C#, E dorian XXX|XXO

and A Mixolydian XXO|OOX

and B minor XOO|OOX

and with crossfingered C natural you have D Mixolydian XXX|XXX

E minor XXX|XXO

G Major XXX|OOO

A dorian XXO|OOX

Anyhow you’ll see people show up with a 2nd whistle, in C, giving, with “open C#” (D whistle terminology)

C Major XXX|XXX

D dorian XXX|XXO etc

and with crossfingered “C natural” (D whistle terminology)

F Major XXX|OOO

G dorian XXO|OOX etc

Just with two whistles there’s not much stuff you can’t play.

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