Side by side test, and questions

Whistle
1

Hello. I’m new to this stuff, but I thought I’d try this anyway.

A few years ago, when I was a tourist in Ireland, I picked up a Walton Mellow D whistle at the gift shop at Bunratty Castle, in Shannon. I played with it a bit on that day, then it got put away when I got home, and I forgot about it.

A week or so ago, I was listening to the radio and heard some beautiful whistle playing, and that moved me to dig out that Walton whistle. But I couldn’t find it. So I went on ebay and ordered a Freeman “tweaked” Sweetone whistle. The only reason for that choice was, I figured a tweaked instrument would be better than a vanilla one. In a couple of days it arrived, but in the meantime I found my old Walton Mellow D.

So I decided to do a recorded comparison, using the first part of “Tobin’s Favorite,” for which I found sheet music online. The recordings follow. I apologize for the slow tempo, halting, fumbling, and lack of ornamentation. I just picked these things up and I don’t have the fingering in my cerebellum yet, and I’m a long way from attaining musicality. I’ve played recorders, sax, and flute, thought not very recently, so I sorta know my way around a woodwind. But I just picked these up, and what I’m trying to figure out is which one actually sounds better. So I’m curious to know what more experienced ears make of the comparison.

http://www.mediafire.com/?1iyymehgrzy

http://www.mediafire.com/?2kmjitfzenw

And since these are blind links…can you tell which is which?

Another question: On a recorder, the upper register is played by partially opening the thumb hole. There’s no thumb hole on a whistle, of course. But as I was playing with these whistles just now, I noticed that the notes E through A (upper register) sounded a bit less hoarse if I cracked open the first hole (the B hole; we’ll have no A hole cracks, please) just a bit. This led me to wonder whether anyone has tried drilling a thumb hole on a whistle. I could probably do this without much trouble on the Walton, but not on the tweaked Sweetone, because of the seam (That seam is annoying, by the way).

That’s enough for a first post. Nice to meet everyone.

2

And hello to you, too.

They’re not as blind as you think. The file names tell which is the Waltons and which is the Sweetone.

Try putting a piece of electrician’s tape along the seam so it doesn’t bother your thumb.

Best wishes,
Jerry

3

Ah, good idea, I’ll try that tape idea.

And yes, I forgot the file names were there…d’oh!

You may have a bias concerning the two instruments, but now that I’ve listened to the recording a few more times, I have to say that the Walton sounds a bit hoarser–which is odd, because as I was recording them I had the exact opposite impression.

4

Sometimes it’s hard to predict how a recording will compare to the live sound.

I don’t know how easy it would be to distinguish between a Sweetone (tweaked or otherwise) and a Mellow D from a recording. There’s not a great difference in the amount of purity/reediness between the two, which is the characteristic that’s usually most identifiable in a soundclip. You might try posting it as a poll and see if significantly more than half the people guess correctly.

Best wishes,
Jerry

5

Frankly, I think this is a somewhat pointless exercise, at this point in your taking up whistle.

As you yourself pointed out, you’re a beginner when it comes to whistle. I think that, whatever conclusion you come to this week – whichever whistle you prefer this week – that opinion might change radically by the time you’re, say, an intermediate player.

I’m picturing a student driver, learning to drive. If their Driver’s Ed instructor has them drive a Ford Escort to the store and back, and then has them drive a BMW 320 to the store and back, will the student be able to make an insightful comparison of how the two cars handle?

6

Now, as for thumb holes, that’s a subject that interests me.

I have a Burke composite D whistle which I ordered with a thumb hole, a few months ago. I’m still undecided as to whether I like it (the thumb hole). Occasionally I find a tune where the thumb hole provides an easier alternative to playing… (something). But in general I find that I worry about whether I won’t cover the thumb hole cleanly; and I think that makes me subconsciously grip the whistle more tightly than I should.

However, I’ve long since forgotten anything I ever knew about recorder so I don’t know if comments about the Burke thumb-hole option are even relevant. I vaguely recall that, whenever the subject of thumb holes comes up, whistlers tend to not want to go there.

7

Boehm, when he invented the modern flute, originally had an octave key on it. He claimed it helped the voicing of the high notes.
The flute-playing world did not agree, and the octave key died with Boehm though his flute (sans the octave key) lived on to become the world standard.

Trying to turn a whistle into a recorder, or expecting a whistle to function like a recorder, is so alien and wrongheaded a notion that I can’t even think of a way of expressing it. If you want something that works like a recorder, play the recorder. If you want to play Irish whistle, learn to play it and accept it for the wonderful thing that it is. It doesn’t need or want people raised outside of ITM to try to mutate it into something else. It’s perfect for the music that’s traditionally played on it; it doesn’t need “improving”.

8

Agree totally with MusicalADD. Both whistles sound fine, I don’t think you should be concerned about that now. You should concentrate on learning to play them. You should have a good read through Brother Steve’s online tutorials now before you develop any bad habits. Your first tip is NOT to tongue every note, in fact if you follow this tutorial you’ll be starting by stripping out the tonguing completely. Also do not attempt to play this music only from sheet music, you’ll need to listen a hell of a lot before you get to grips with how the various forms are supposed to sound.

This thing you are saying about venting the B hole to play the high E to A is slightly worrying, doing this even slightly will knock those notes out of tune. Stick to the text book, it’s been tried and tested over many years and forget about thumb holes and tweaking, it’s a whistle you are playing now not a recorder God damnit!

If you have any specific questions there will always be someone here to answer them for you.

9

I appreciate the replies. My point really wasn’t “which whistle is better,” although it may have come across that way. I suspect I’ll discover that different playing styles will work better on different whistles and, true enough, I don’t have a playing style yet.

As for the thumb hole question, I’ve listened to quite a few youtube whistle performances, some from what appear to be pretty experienced players. Even with these players, I can sometimes hear some hoarseness in the upper register (2nd octave). The point is not to turn a whistle into a recorder. I was just wondering if thumb holes have been tried and, if so, with what results. The possibility that use of a thumb hold would cause the player to have to grip the whistle more tightly and therefore change the playing style is an interesting one that I hadn’t thought of.

10

believe the thumb hole option mentioned on the Burkes speaks for itself when the question of validity in ITM comes up… Do what makes you happy and makes you want to play.

Best,

Deisman

11

I think I know what you meant. My opinion (not that I’m all that exerianced) is that you should use the Walton. Not that Freeman tweaked whistles aren’t good (they’re great), just that I don’t think Sweetones are that good. The ones I’ve played weren’t very fun. You couldn’t push them and they were so easy to play that when I went to another, it was hard to get used to the air requirement.

12

At the moment I’m switching back and forth. I’ll probably succumb to WhOAD very soon in any case. I like the feel of the Walton in my hands, but as I get used to playing them, I find that I’m getting a better sound from the Sweetone. Who knows what’ll happen when the Feadog arrives? How is that pronounced, by the way?

The Sweetone has smaller tone holes than the Walton. As I try to get a feel for cuts and taps, the smaller holes seem to give me a little more sensitivity, but I suppose I’ll get to a point where I can do them equally well on either.

13

Further reflections…

I’m playing when I have the chance, and keeping both whistles in my brief case.

– The tweaked Sweetone has a much clearer sound in the low register, but I struggle a bit in the 2nd octave. I have better success with the Walton in the 2nd octave.

– The Walton is a semitone sharp, unless I pull the head out about a centimeter. But it’s not that snug and tends to move back down.

– The tone holes on the Walton are a tad bigger, and my (large) fingers feel more comfortable with them, so far.

I’m expecting two more whistles in the mail soon (I know, I know. I can quit anytime I want): an untweaked Feadog, and a Dixon one-piece polymer. Then I’ll stop; I swear I will.

14

if a whistle has a thumb hole it is used as an alternative fingering for c natural, nothing else. the bore of a whistle is not the same as a recorder, and a thumb hole will not do the same thing even if you tried.

to make the top end less harsh, please follow this link: http://www.chiffandfipple.com/tweak.html

be wary you could ruin the whistle. i would suggest putting some “blue tack” as it recommends inside, but not bothering with the sand paper, as that is how you can ruin it. the blue tack is reversible, and should round the tone and make the instrument respond better.

15

Thank you, that was the detail I was looking for. I was getting ready to drill a thumb hole in my Walton just to find out. I won’t bother now.

to make the top end less harsh, please follow this link: > http://www.chiffandfipple.com/tweak.html

be wary you could ruin the whistle. i would suggest putting some “blue tack” as it recommends inside, but not bothering with the sand paper, as that is how you can ruin it. the blue tack is reversible, and should round the tone and make the instrument respond better.

Well, I have a few more inexpensive whistles due in my mailbox soon, so before I start retweaking anything I’ll see what they sound like. I suspect the Freeman tweaks take the Sweetone about as far as it can go.