To Whom it may concern,
This is for all you experts out there. Is is possible to play three short rolls in jig time, to replace two long rolls.
Normal Long Rolls in 6/8 Time
Beats 123 456
Rolls 1 2
Short Rolls (what I was wondering is okay)
Beats 123456
Rolls 1 2 3
Any help will be most appreciated,
thank-you
Sorry my rolls aren’t working out
I’ll Try it again
g= a roll’s beginning
= time periods of roll ie. G|_= a long roll
Normal Long Rolls in 6/8
Beats:1 2 3 4 5 6
Rolls:G | G |
What I am suggesting
Beats:1 2 3 4 5 6
Rolls:G _ G _ G _
Lets see if that works
Have you heard anyone doing that?
I believe I have heard people do that, but I also think that we should be trying new things, in hopes of not just using what our ancestors have created, but to add onto that, and evolving it, to fit our time period.
What I mean is this: If you’ve head someone do it, you know it’s possible and you can get it in your ear. In terms of notes per bar it’s possible to do three short rolls in a row (not that I could), but that doesn’t mean it’s possible musically. It might completely destroy the phrasing, I don’t know. As a practical thing, why not see if you can get it in your fingers and then record yourself and listen critically to the result.
I think it is mathematically possible to do 3 short rolls in a bar but musically it might not be so advantageous if one is playing a jig. Doing so totally disrupts a jig rhythm/phrasing.
On 2002-11-26 23:04, quicksilver wrote:
I believe I have heard people do that, but I also think that we should be trying new things, in hopes of not just using what our ancestors have created, but to add onto that, and evolving it, to fit our time period.
I don’t know if I’m reading it right but this statement seems to be coming from one with a perspective that the music is dead and very limited, which I wholely disagree with. In truth there is a lot of ground to be explored within the bounds of the tradition but not many people are aware of that.
Trying new things is a very fine thing, but I feel that one should be extremely well versed in the music before doing so. Firstly, you can save yourself the trouble of reinventing the wheel. Secondly, without being incredibly familiar with the musical idom, how can you tell what should be altered and how to best alter it?
Even the most celebrated of “nu-trad” be it Niall Keegan, Liz Carol, Michael McGoldrick, or Brian Finnegan all have a solid grounding in IRtrad music to base their innovations/fusions on.
[ This Message was edited by: Eldarion on 2002-11-27 02:29 ]
The effect of this would be to impose a measure of 3/4 in a 6/8 tune. Which to me is dangerously evocative of “West Side Story.” You know:
I like to be in Amer-i-ca
Okay by me in Amer-i-ca
Everything free in Amer-i-ca
For a small fee in Amer-i-ca
Which I guess is ok if that’s what you’re aiming for, but in Irish music it would sound kind of twee.
Be careful about using too many rolls in jigs. Since a long roll takes 3 entire 8th notes it can really take out a significant part of the tune. I recommend rolling much less than you would in a reel.
I know this isn’t the answer to your question, but I just thought I’d mention it anyways.
Chris
Ok, I was listening to “At First Light” by Michael McGoldrick and John McSherry, and M. McG. does the three-short-rolls-in-a-row-thing on the second tune on the second track, “Willie Clancy’s.” So there’s precident. But he does a lot of other virtuosic funky variations as well on that tune, so it makes musical sense.
I think it does give a kinda cool variation (I do use it) but you wouldn’t wanna do it more than once in every about 6 sets of tunes. My opinion, anyway.
Jo.
On 2002-11-26 23:04, quicksilver wrote:
…but I also think that we should be trying new things, in hopes of not just using what our ancestors have created, but to add onto that, and evolving it, to fit our time period.
Well, yes, I agree with that, to a point. But…I think the point is not to do things differently for the sake of it. I think that the point of what the nutrad folks are doing is in their melodic interpretations. To find a new emotion in a tune is the heart of it; to hear something where it has never been heard before. I guess that sometimes that involves using technique in a different way then before; but the point is to bring out the tune, rather than just doing things differently for the sake of it.
It’s also worth bearing in mind that traditional music and how it is played has been developed and refined by generations of very skilled and intelligent musicians before it came down to us.
They wouldn’t introduce or accept anything new for the sake of it or because it was clever. However, if an innovation represented a real improvement and blended well with what had gone before, they wouldn’t hestitate to embrace it.
This is not a question of merely accepting what the ancestors did, it’s a question of recognizing that an enormous amount of thought and time has been poured into the way the music is played - coming up with real improvements isn’t easy.
I remember hearing an old album by Brendan Mulvihill. The sleeve notes proudly explained that Brendan had invented a new ornament, a kind of “stuttering roll” on the note of B. Unfortunately it sounded totally ridiculous - it certainly made me laugh out loud. The effect was as jarring as someone sitting on a cat in the middle of the tune. I feel fairly safe in saying it hasn’t been taken up by anyone else, and I’m not sure he still does it.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t innovate or try new things, BTW. But I like to remember that we stand on the shoulders of giants.
Thanks, Stevie. I used to think I was the only one who thought that “stutter” was ridiculous. I laughed so hard at a bar in D.C. that I had to leave the room. Certain session types never spoke to me again after that.
If the ornament makes the tune better in some way (as you hear it and interpret it), by all means play it. If it’s function is to show that you can play faster than me, enter one of those competitions.
One of the best ornaments you can play is to slow a tune down from the fastest you can possibly play it.