# Shocking bore **URL:** \ **Category:** Irish Flute\ **Created:** [May 24, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705 "2006-05-24T21:24:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jayhawk](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/jayhawk/32/298_2.png) [@Jayhawk](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Jayhawk)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 11:42am UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/21 "2006-05-25T11:42:57Z")
I agree James - an interesting thread indeed. And, how the flute sounds is truly my measure of an instrument… ---
**Author:** ![fearfaoin](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/fearfaoin/32/555_2.png) [@fearfaoin](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/fearfaoin)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 1:10pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/22 "2006-05-25T13:10:04Z")
> [@Loren](#): > > I have, from time to time, considered posting such photos here (without naming the maker(s) of course), because I’ve run across some really ugly stuff - things that should, in my opinion, never have been allowed to leave a maker’s shop. And I do believe that flute buyers are better off knowing what to look for, with regards to quality and craftsmanship. Loren, have you played these examples? Have you found peculiarities in the sounds that can be directly linked to the roughness? I’m curious as to what the added turbulence will do to the overall sound… The rifling on a gun causes the bullet to spin and improves distance and acuracy… Would flute rifling start the column of air spining? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JessieK](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/jessiek/32/25_2.png) [@JessieK](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/JessieK)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 1:22pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/23 "2006-05-25T13:22:49Z")
Good post, Casey. And, as I said, the flute plays quite well…much better than a Bb flute I once owned that cost more than double the price of this one. ---
**Author:** ![Sillydill](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/sillydill/32/965_2.png) [@Sillydill](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Sillydill)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 1:50pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/24 "2006-05-25T13:50:14Z")
Honestly! I’m trying to keep from this discussion, but can’t. 😈 My tail feathers haven’t grown back yet from my previous post on this topic. But anything for the sake of science! 😃 A flute’s tone is only one of the qualities affected by bore texture. A more appreciable quality effected is response. A smooth bore greatly improves a flute’s response and articulation. Or, at least this has been my interpretation of the results. All the Best! Jordan ---
**Author:** ![Jumbuk](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/jumbuk/32/1046_2.png) [@Jumbuk](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Jumbuk)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 1:52pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/25 "2006-05-25T13:52:20Z")
I think this thread is well-named 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Congratulations](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/congratulations/32/910_2.png) [@Congratulations](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Congratulations)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 1:55pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/26 "2006-05-25T13:55:38Z")
> [@Jumbuk](#): > > I think this thread is well-named 🙂 Oh, you _are_ a party pooper! 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Loren](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/loren/32/65_2.png) [@Loren](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Loren)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 2:03pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/27 "2006-05-25T14:03:44Z")
> [@fearfaoin](#): > > > [@Loren](#): > > > > I have, from time to time, considered posting such photos here (without naming the maker(s) of course), because I’ve run across some really ugly stuff - things that should, in my opinion, never have been allowed to leave a maker’s shop. And I do believe that flute buyers are better off knowing what to look for, with regards to quality and craftsmanship. > > Loren, have you played these examples? Have you found peculiarities > in the sounds that can be directly linked to the roughness? I’m curious > as to what the added turbulence will do to the overall sound… > > The rifling on a gun causes the bullet to spin and improves distance > and acuracy… Would flute rifling start the column of air spining? 🙂 Let me first say, “Good on ya” to Casey for stepping in and clarifying his thoughts on instrument making. With regards to your Questions fearfaoin: Yup, I’ve listened to the instruments in question, and many others. So, I am not shooting from the hip, so to speak, and simply positing an opinion based solely on speculation. Rather, I’m working off the experience of having been exposed to the before and after comparisons of hundreds of new and used instruments. That is to say, having listened to these instruments both before, and immediately after polishing the bore. Based on that experience, my observation is that in nearly all cases, polishing the bore results in improved articulation/responsiveness as well as increased tonal clarity and “range”, or “flexibility”, by that I mean an instrument that is more capable of sounding both reedy, and clear, depending on how one plays it. By contrast, rough bores tend to produce an instrument that is much more “one dimensional” tonally, and less responsive overall. I can’t ever recall polishing a bore (also referred to as “scouring”) and having the instrument’s sound deteriorate, although certainly there have been a minority of cases (IME) where polishing caused no noticable improvement, but again, I’ve found this quite rare. On the flip side, the positive effects of bore polishing can be quite surprising - one minute the instrument sounds a bit stuffy, slow to respond, and dull tonally - generally rather lifeless, and then a few minutes later after polishing, that same instrument has a very cracking, lively tone and response. So, it’s really the hundreds of these direct before and after experiences that have convinced me of the value of a smooth bore, and not some purely idealistic musings on my part, if you see what I mean. I can certainly understand why flute owners without this experience would say “well, my flute sounds fine, even though the bore isn’t glass smooth”, however, I’d have to say that you don’t know how your flute would if the bore were smooth. Also, it’s fair to say that “smooth” is somewhat relative, depending on the type of wood, and a few other variables, and visibly “Glass smooth” isn’t always possible or practical, at least not without sealing pores and such, which can add significantly to the price. However, this is all good information for the consumer to have and think about, IMO. One final thought: I’ve mentioned it before, but it bears repeating: Attention to all the little “details” is what makes the difference between an average or sub-par instrument, and a great one, and I’m not talking about appearance. If you look at the instruments (in our case flutes) that are considered very top of the stack, by really fine players, you will see they all have this attention to detail in common: Smooth bores, well finished tone holes and embouchure, concentric and well fitting joints, etc. I know it can be difficult,or even counterintuitive to imagine some of these apparently “little” things can combine to make a significant difference, but they do. Hope this helps. Loren ---
**Author:** ![Wormdiet](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/wormdiet/32/923_2.png) [@Wormdiet](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Wormdiet)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 2:19pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/28 "2006-05-25T14:19:34Z")
On the whole “rough bore - plays well” issue, to what degree does a film of condensation change or improve the playing characteristics? Is this phenomenon real? How does the texture of the bore interact with it? ---
**Author:** ![fearfaoin](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/fearfaoin/32/555_2.png) [@fearfaoin](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/fearfaoin)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 2:26pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/29 "2006-05-25T14:26:37Z")
> [@Loren](#): > > I am not shooting from the hip… I knew that, which is why I asked your opinion, which I respect. > [@Loren](#): > > By contrast, rough bores tend to produce an instrument that is much more “one dimension” tonally, and less responsive overall. Facinating, thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Craig\_Stuntz](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/craig_stuntz/32/3653_2.png) [@Craig\_Stuntz](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Craig_Stuntz)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 3:53pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/30 "2006-05-25T15:53:33Z")
> [@Casey Burns](#): > > Sometime this year I plan to make a boxwood flute with some small diameter branch wood I have - the thing with still have its bark on, literally. I am planning to send this one around the world as my “Ambassador Flute” finally - and require everyone who tries it out to carefully carve their initials into it! Stay tuned… Wow, that is one of the coolest things I’ve read in a while. 🕶 -Craig ---
**Author:** ![Cathy\_Wilde](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/cathy_wilde/32/556_2.png) [@Cathy\_Wilde](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Cathy_Wilde)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 6:55pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/31 "2006-05-25T18:55:38Z")
Make it a Bb and I’ll get my penknife out now! I always figured a rougher bore (within reason, of course) would give the flute more of a husky or “whiskey” voice. That’s what I feel like I’ve seen with mine, anyway. My smooth-as-glass-finished blackwood flute seems just a touch more “lively” or vibrant than my more “natural-grained” blackwood flute; my (warped, thank you very much) boxwood flute also has a slightly rougher interior and is again, more on the mellow side. (Of course, that’s only one factor anyway …) But … what about bamboo ![:boggle:](https://s3.pfaffmanager.com/sites/chiffandfipple/original/2X/0/0287f377b0e103e172422ffbbe8c639fd3e12c9e.gif "boggle") ??? ---
**Author:** ![BillG](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/billg/32/117_2.png) [@BillG](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/BillG)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 6:59pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/32 "2006-05-25T18:59:23Z")
Jessie - I’m curious to know what kind of wood your flute was made of. I recall conversation about Mopane having a tendancy to do that all on its own do to saliva ruffling its feathers. - so to speak. BillG ---
**Author:** ![JessieK](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/jessiek/32/25_2.png) [@JessieK](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/JessieK)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/33 "2006-05-25T20:48:53Z")
Yup, it’s Mopane. By the way, the entire bore is not like that - just the part I showed. ---
**Author:** ![Unseen122](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/unseen122/32/6588_2.png) [@Unseen122](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Unseen122)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 8:58pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/34 "2006-05-25T20:58:10Z")
So Loren, different wood spieces and families can be polished to a smoother finish. Would you say that is a big reason on why different woods get a different tone? How about you Casey? Terry? BTW, My Boxwood Flute is also slightly warped. ---
**Author:** ![peeplj](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/peeplj/32/161_2.png) [@peeplj](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/peeplj)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/35 "2006-05-25T21:24:29Z")
This reminds me of the controversy in the Boehm flute world over soldered-vs-drawn tone holes. Quick summary: drawn tone holes are absolutely airtight, structurally strong, have a very smooth join to the bore, and are extremely durable over time. Soldered tone holes can start to leak over time and have a rougher join with the bore. Additionally, they are not as structurally strong and are often a repair point. That said, soldered tone holes are widely considered to be superior, helping to impart a tonal character to the sound which many Boehm-system flutists find very desirable. Acoustically, drawn tones holes make sense and should be superior. But they are not, at least according to many high-end makers and players, and it is frequently debated why this is so. –James ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Parkhurst](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/dave_parkhurst/32/59_2.png) [@Dave\_Parkhurst](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Dave_Parkhurst)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 10:18pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/36 "2006-05-25T22:18:50Z")
It almost looks like the wood has become permanently raised from moisture…hard to get that kind of roughness unless you bore it out with a rock. Caveat emptor…all of those ridges may be causing what you like in the instrument…harmonics, whistles, overtones and all. I once took 600 grit sandpaper to the bore of a whistle which was roughened by time, and it sounded worse, even though the bore was visibly smoother. I’m convinced that sometimes the little variations in bore smoothness are what give a woodwind it’s personality (although in this case, “little variations” is a gross misunderstatement). Heck, if you like it, play it… hugz, Dave ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/aeb1de/32.png) [@Jonathan](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Jonathan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 10:36pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/37 "2006-05-25T22:36:06Z")
I’d just like to say that I own a Casey Burns Bb (mopane), and it’s a wonderful, responsive flute. ---
**Author:** ![Dana](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/dana/32/140_2.png) [@Dana](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Dana)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 11:28pm UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/38 "2006-05-25T23:28:56Z")
In the Boehm world of drawn vs. soldered toneholes: I really think it depends on the flute. I chose soldered toneholes for my Miyazawa, because it added depth and oomph to the sound (possibly because of the added silver). However, I used to have a wonderful flute made by a fellow named Jack Moore. His drawn tonehole flutes seemed to be best. Mine was luscious. Dana > [@peeplj](#): > > This reminds me of the controversy in the Boehm flute world over soldered-vs-drawn tone holes. > > Quick summary: drawn tone holes are absolutely airtight, structurally strong, have a very smooth join to the bore, and are extremely durable over time. > > Soldered tone holes can start to leak over time and have a rougher join with the bore. Additionally, they are not as structurally strong and are often a repair point. > > That said, soldered tone holes are widely considered to be superior, helping to impart a tonal character to the sound which many Boehm-system flutists find very desirable. > > Acoustically, drawn tones holes make sense and should be superior. > > But they are not, at least according to many high-end makers and players, and it is frequently debated why this is so. > > –James ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Jones](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/doc_jones/32/208_2.png) [@Doc\_Jones](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/Doc_Jones)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 12:32am UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/39 "2006-05-26T00:32:42Z")
Great posts all. I too love Casey’s work. He once offered to replace the body on my much-beloved Boxwood Rudall that had become a bit bananaesque (hey, there’s a new word for you Loren 🙂 ) I wouldn’t hear of it. If it works it works. I’m not one to mess with tonal perfection just so I could have a straight tooter! 😃 Doc ---
**Author:** ![I.D.10-t](https://chiffandfipplewww.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.chiffandfipple.com/i.d.10-t/32/588_2.png) [@I.D.10-t](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/u/I.D.10-t)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 12:47am UTC](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705/40 "2006-05-26T00:47:30Z")
When I knew pool players, they would never rest their pool cues against a wall for storage because of the fear of warping. Maybe you just need to balance your flute against the wall just right to bend it back. I think what the real problem is that makers do not have volunteers to break in their flutes for a year so that they can re-ream them and place the final touches on them. [Previous page](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705.md?page=1) [Next page](https://www.chiffandfipple.com/t/shocking-bore/38705.md?page=3)