Here’s a poser for you all…
karaoke over here is popular but is considered of low culture…
…so is a session just an instrumental karaoke???
Discuss !!
Boyd
A session would only be instrumental karaoke if you plugged in a CD, which played everything but the melody, and you simply played the melody on an instrument.
The closest that many of us come to this is when we choose to play along with a CD as we try to pick up part of a tune. It’s not quite the same, though, because the CD includes the melody.
I gotta say, playing with real live musicians is a blast! It’s never the same… somebody echoes someone’s ad lib, you decide to throw in an extra verse, someone goofs big time and you roll along trying to hide it… that’s all part of some sessions, I presume.
The session in the typical sense isn’t an option where I live, but I’d certainly choose it over any form of karaoke.
Beginners may differ!
Jef
Gack, no! Karaoke is singing along with a pre-recorded tune, one selected from the sanitized and controlled Record Label Selections, imitating precisely the arrangement of the original performance with no room for any variation or originallity except to get the key wrong by 1/2 step…
Session, OTOH, is a group of musicians taking melodies and playing their own interpretations and variations to the very best of their abilities, with as much room for creativity as they desire (which, granted, may be fairly strict bounds depending on the musicians… )
If a Session were Karaoke with instruments, there would be a player playing CDs of famous players for everyone to play along with. You are welcome to test how this goes over at a session near you, but I’m not responsible for any injure you sustain in this dangerous exercise. 
The one good thing I will say about Karaoke is that it does get people -participating- in music again, even if it is mostly treated as a humorous drinking game played along with manufactured mass-appeal music, it’s a step in the right direction compared to vegging out in front of MTV… but it’s no more a session that I’m in a session when I play along with a CD…
–Chris
The day someone gets up to the bar with their laptop hooked to some speakers then plays along with Virtual Session, that will be karaoke.
Entertainment media has changed significantly over the past 100 years. Before radio, people entertained themselves; parlor entertainment. This is the niche that session music fits into as it was often found in kitchens and public houses. This was certainly not just a Irish thing. I think this was common among a majority of western cultures.
When radio came along, people started listening to tallent that was of a higher caliber than they were familiar with. People began expecting better tallent. Telivision came along and further marginalized the centuries old customs of family/community based entertainment.
Now that the overwhelming majority of western cultures have forgotten this fun form of entertainment, the niche for entertaining privately with friends has been left empty. Karaoke has been the only recent custom that fills that hole in life. I think $400 seats at U2 concerts and $15 cover charges to see horrible cover bands at dirty taverns is also giving some benefit to the popularity of karaoke.
The reason karaoke is considered “low culture” is that there is no skill, practice, investment, taste, or tallent NECESSARY for participation. Although if Bono or Jewel showed up at some bar during karaoke night, I do not think the perception of the event would still be considered “low culture.”
Karaoke and sessions share the element of entertaining among friends. After that, there are only contrasts between the two entertainment media. Although I do think karaoke is the manifestation of people searching for what parlor entertainment provided for their ancestors. At least the Irish and Irish emigrants had the sense to not dispose of sessions in the first place.
With any luck other traditions will adopt the session with their musics to enrich the world with what mass media took away.
And our bluegrass people have pickin’ parties.
Well…actually there is no talent etc necessary FOR any type of musical participation…its just that you will GET BOO"D and…may have stuff thrown at you. Remember SINGERS ARE MUSICIANS too. Karakoe is the CLOSEST that most typical singers will EVER get to singing with a band or professional level instrumentation behind them. True it can me LOW class…but I have also heard some absolutely AWESOME voices out there.
And…there IS an investement in equipment for the DJ, or KARAKOE master. SOme of the people who sing on a regular basis also invest in their own tapes in the key that they want to sing in. While the arrangment is…not live and is generally excatly like the recording the singer…if GOOD can CERTAINLY improvise within the arrangement. People do it ALL the TIME!!!. LETS NOT BE SNOBS ALL>
[ This Message was edited by: dd on 2002-05-28 19:06 ]
P.S. LONG LIVE THE PICKIN PARTIES !!!
On 2002-05-28 19:02, dd wrote:
Remember SINGERS ARE MUSICIANS too. Karakoe is the CLOSEST that most typical singers will EVER get to singing with a band or professional level instrumentation behind them.
Personally, I’m more than willing to learn more airs to accompany singers with, if only to save them from karaoke.
More seriously, I do make some attempt at singing myself, and have several friends who do as well… as well as one friend who can -actually- sing (degree in music, specializing in voice, so one would -hope- she had learned to sing ) and I’m certainly aware that singers are musicians too.
My view of it is, if these aspiring singers feel that they can only sing to professionally packaged karaoke types, -they’re- the ones being snobs, refusing to play with us amateur musicians! Okay, realistically, most (U.S.) sessions don’t have much room for singing, but I’d like to see that change.
My -real- dislike is not for karaoke singers, but for the manufactured, prepackaged, soulless, made for mass consumption musical pap that makes up the vast majority of karaoke and pop radio… there is older rock & pop music from before the major labels got such a tight stranglehold on the distribution channels, but as personal thing, after so many years of hearing the exact same down to the micro-beat and every catch in breath songs, I just can’t stand to listen to them anymore… no piece of music is so good that it can be listened to constantly and identically for 10 years and not become sickening… which leads me to largely hate recorded music generally, though I do have a small selection of trad CDs… but personally, I think if you want to have any -life- in music it has to be played -live-, which means live musicians as well as live singers.
I’d far rather listen to an amateur whistler or fiddler accompanying a beginning singer than listen to my Matt Malloy or Laurence Nugent CDs. And if people are going to get up in a bar and sing popular tunes, I’d rather hear them a capella.
But I may be a little extreme in my point of view.
–Chris
On 2002-05-28 19:02, dd wrote:
Well…actually there is no talent etc necessary FOR any type of musical participation…its just that you will GET BOO"D and…may have stuff thrown at you.
Actually, I’ve never seen anybody get boo’d during karaoke, which is why I capitalized the word “NECESSARY.”
On 2002-05-28 19:02, dd wrote:
Remember SINGERS ARE MUSICIANS too. . . True it can me LOW class…but I have also heard some absolutely AWESOME voices out there.
I never wrote anything to disagree with your statement, but all singers are musicians, but not everybody that sings is a singer in the avocational sense. Most karaoke participants that I’ve had the misfortune of hearing couldn’t carry a tune if it was stapled to their foreheads.
On 2002-05-28 19:02, dd wrote:
And…there IS an investement in equipment for the DJ, or KARAKOE master.
They are not participants in the sense that session players participate at sessions. Besides, they are professionals by virtue of making money by letting the participants have fun; session musicians are mostly (99%) amateurs with a passion/obsession. Session players make investments in instruments (money) and practice (time). Large numbers of karaoke participants just show up.
On 2002-05-28 19:02, dd wrote:
SOme of the people who sing on a regular basis also invest in their own tapes in the key that they want to sing in. While the arrangment is…not live and is generally excatly like the recording the singer…if GOOD can CERTAINLY improvise within the arrangement.
In which case they are the musician-singer as opposed to the patron/noise-maker akin to those folks that grab two spoons while witnessing their first session and try to play rhythm for the first time in public because they saw some musician playing spoons and think they can be instant musicians - just add alcohol.
On 2002-05-28 19:02, dd wrote:
People do it ALL the TIME!!!. LETS NOT BE SNOBS ALL>
I would certainly appreciate if you would not make assumptions about what I wrote, and then make accusations about the ill-intent of the words I didn’t write. I spent some time thinking about long-term social phenomenon that lead to the success of karaoke in today’s culture. Since I did not make blanket statement about ALL KARAOKE PARTICIPANTS, I feel it was really out of line to assume such, especially since I made a reference to the possibility of skilled musicians being present. I also emphasied a word that would negate my words being a blanket statement.
And since you brought it up, I would think that the 75% of participants who can’t sing in tune don’t put a social stigma on the 25% that can. If someone invites you to listen to them sing at karaoke, don’t tell me your first thought isn’t “he/she is my friend, so I will show up and be supportive even if they are one of the 75%.”
Now would you please not put words onto my finger-tips and pay attention to the thoughtful things I wrote, or ignore me altogether. Your choice. Also, please do a search on “boxer shorts” or “pink bunny slippers” and read any relavant posts.
Wait just a minute…
Are we talking about karaoke singers, or bodhran players? 
On 2002-05-28 20:24, Mark_J wrote:
They are not participants in the sense that session players participate at sessions…Large numbers of karaoke participants just show up…think they can be instant musicians - just add alcohol.
Um, sessions are nothing like karoke, at least the way they do it in Beijing. When I was there on business, my business associates took me to a “karoke” room after dinner. Not an open bar like here in the states, but private rooms with low couches. At some point in walks a line of stunningly beautiful girls, and I am instructed to pick one.
Hey, when in Rome…
Now I know what you are thinking, and it was not like that. Strange to the western mind, and while it is true that the girls exchanged cell phone numbers with my assoicates (they were locals), this was the custom…to simply rent a room for the night, and sing karoke with some beautiful women.
Anyway, despite the best of cross-culturalization intentions, I’ve not yet been successful in incorporating these sorts of customs in the local session in my area.
Boyd, stop teasing.
No contest - keep music live!
“Boyd, stop teasing.”
…well, maybe I was !
Mind you, the pub session really isn’t a traditional thing…it kind of appeared in London in the 50’s where there were Irish workers.
Ulster had gatherings in houses…Scotland too [“bothy nights”]…so the playing in front of strangers in a pub thing wasn’t common. Singing was more usual in pubs.
Boyd.
As a musician who has been singing a lot longer than I’ve been whistling, I’d like to point out that singers have many wonderful alternatives to Karoake bars. There are folk clubs everywhere, and often you will meet guitar players and other instrumentalists who are happy to accompany your singing. Perfect technique is not a requirement at many of these clubs, only the willingness to share an interesting song and interpret it in a personal way. Karaoke leaves no room whatsoever for individuality in phrasing and interpretation. The only thing you can show there is the ability to reproduce exactly what you have heard on the radio.
I agree with Chris. I’d rather hear live music of any caliber than listen to recorded music.
My current favorite place for a musical experience is a club which includes open stage performances (mostly singers, usually accompanied), a more professional feature performance (singers and/or instrumental), and a between-set mini-session that anyone can join in. It’s the most fun you can have with your clothes on.
Mark J…I DIDNT DIRECT MY COMMENTS TO YOU. But I thank you for your “lovely” and nonjudgemental comments to me.
Blackbird you are fortunate to live in an area with folk clubs. I am personally 60 miles from the closest one. And of course most people singing Karakoe ARENT doing folk or trad music. Most of the musicians that I know would NEVER dream of letting a stranger set in on a set. The music jam sessions around here DONT allow people who use their voice as their only instrument.
I stand on my statement that most of the people who get into Karakoe see it as there only opportunity to sing in public with accompanment. I have NEVER met one that would perfer to sing with the prerecorded stuff over live musicians.
I know people who are really into the Karakoe stuff, who actually have really nice voices. The people who go all the time actually CAN sing. Sure they dont buy instruments so there is no investment of money…but how much did ya’ll pay for your voices. The good one DO practice (and some of them an amazing amount)
Its all musical expression. It may not be your cup of tea…SO dont go. Personally I think its great to see someone who maybe shy, have a great voice and have NEVER sung before an audience really nail a performance. You should see their faces beam when strangers tell them they sounded good.
There is ALWAYS room for interpretation when you are singing. BTW karakoe is not really much more dead than several bands I have sung with…not all musicians are open to experimenting with arrangements and songs. Actually singing with an orchestra is about the same. Only the conductor gets to play around with it. lol