Semi-beginner Flutes

Irish Flute
21

I understand that Aanvil was genuinely trying to help, but that sort of reply drives me a little crazy.

If you can’t save up enough coin in that amount of time then… Heck you can probably check seat cushions and busk that much in 11 years.

Sometimes, paying thousands of dollars for flutes is just not an option. Ever. And that attitude of “you’ll be able to save it up in 11 years” is only true if… well, if it’s true. If you don’t make a lot of money and there are other priorities in your life, you may genuinely NEVER be able to justify spending that much money on a flute. I’m not saying you couldn’t eventually save the money. I’m saying that there may very well be other things in your life that come first. Spending $400 on a flute may already be a stretch and a luxury and I hate when people try to make you feel bad for that.

Why buy multiple flutes you’ll grow out of when you could shoot for one or two you’ll keep for life?

Some of us don’t outgrow our flutes. I love the flute that I have. It’s terrific. I will never ever outgrow it. I have neither the natural talent nor dedication to surpass its capabilities. Why would I spend the money on a more expensive instrument if I never plan to be good enough to tell the difference?

…

The original poster said what he was looking for and what his budget was. Can we just respect that and offer some advice within those given parameters?

22

Hey if you aren’t really serious about your flute playing then there is little point in looking for a good instrument. Just drill some holes in a piece of manky old PVC and be done with it. I also won’t get into some touchy feely purse fight over the merits of my advice. The question one asks often enough may not give them the answer they may need.

I will grant you this. It’s certainly about priority. Cheers.

23

Not for more than the first page. Sometimes there’s a lot to be said for explaining the short comings in the original question.

24

I still think the player is a much bigger deal than the stupid flute. Any of the makers you listed make fine flutes…I’ve played or owned most of them. This is a seriously worn out topic, so I don’t chime in too often anymore (although this is about my second time in 2 months).

I’ve been playing an M&E flute for 5 or 6 years now, it’s been played by two professionals and countless non-pro but good flute players…all say the same thing - it’s a good flute, no need to buy anything else, just keep practicing (I have asked…we all want the flute to make us better but that’s not the reality of it). Aesthetically, it is a step down from some of the other flutes listed, but to get an 8 keyed ebonite flute at such a good price, it’s more than worth it and functionally is wonderful flute.

Get a flute you like (which can be based on aesthetics…that’s totally valid), and simply practice, practice, practice. Buying the most expensive/top flute will NOT make you a better player…it’s practice that does that.

Eric

25

This - exactly. Questioning someone’s priorities, by way of suggesting they come up with money they don’t have now and may not in the future… frankly, is just obnoxious. Had I ordered a fully keyed Olwell 11 years ago, I’d be sadly letting it go to someone else - I have far less to spend now than I did then, and my priorities have shifted from major committment to just playing well, and often.

That said, I bought a very good keyless flute over 11 years ago (a Hamilton) - six month wait I thought at the time was excrutiating, and money that seemed a lot at the time but, in retrospect, was a steal - the same flute now goes for well over double the cost. I often wondered if it was the best choice for me, but I didn’t have the luxury to own too many other makes and styles over the years, so I stuck with it. And, yes, I probably should’ve added keys, back when I had the cash, but didn’t. Still - long story short, I’m truly glad I bought the best possible flute I could back then, in no small part because there’s no way I could replace it, quality-wise, now. And, after about fifteen years of playing, I’m finally truly happy with the way I’m playing this particular flute, in no small part because the flute and have finally come to agreeable terms.

This same story could easily apply to many other reasonably affordable flutes, some of which I’ve tried and others I haven’t.
But, as Eric said, so much more comes from the player and their willingness to persevere. That’s the only priority that matters.

26

I agree with the last two posts.

I would also highly recommend the Delrin Copley, particularly if you live in the U.S.: Great flute, great customer service, short wait, very good resale value, durable, low maintenance. Really, you could easily spend the rest of your playing life on one. Personally I would recommend getting the Elliptical embouchure cut as opposed the the one Dave uses as standard on the delrin flutes. Both embouchure cuts work well on his delrin flute, I’ve tried them both, but if you are thinking you may eventually move to a wooden flute - be it Dave’s or anyone else’s - the elliptical embouchure hole will be much more like most other good (Irish style) flutes you’ll run into down the road, so any transition will be easier if you’ve already been playing on an elliptical cut. Also, while Dave’s flutes are nice and easy to play to begin with, I do think the elliptical embouchure helps develop a more focused lip, which will serve you better as time goes on. Just my opinion, fwiw.

Loren

27

I know the OP and he’s a good young flute player who has been playing “a piece of manky PVC” and doing a not-half-bad job of it. In fact, he’s been doing a great job with it and has played well beyond its limitations. He also has things like high school, college, and other instruments to think about, so at his age a good Delrin flute is just the ticket.

But for the general board, I’m going on record to ditto Loren, Gordon, Eric, and anyone else who basically said what I’m about to: We’ve all been to this rodeo more than a few times. Get the best flute you can afford and play the finish off it. When the three of us used to ask these questions on the board back in the Naughties there were no Forbeses, Copleys, Somerses, or Shannons. There were no Tipples. There weren’t even Folk Flutes. Now there are, and in my book they’re total game-changers. These are all perfectly fine flutes that suit various prices and personalities, and I think they’ve finally made solid, affordable instruments accessible to everyone. Next time you see any of these makers, thank them from the bottom of your heart because it’s a whole new world and we have them to thank for it.

Barring unforeseen disaster no one will get my Murray or Olwell out of my clutches, but if I hadn’t lucked into those I honestly believe I’d be pretty darned content with my Forbes (D) and Copley flutes (Eb and C). I’ve also played a Somers and was very impressed.

Huzzah for affordable, in-tune instruments! :party:

28

Just to emphasize something that has been said already in passing.

If you know what you are doing, you can buy a flute that will be resold at at least what you payed for it,
and sometimes for considerably more. This works for cheaper good delrin flutes–so if you buy one of these
and want later to move up to something wooden and more expensive, you have the option of selling
the delrin flute. It also works for the pricey good flute…it isn’t as though you spent the money on
a vacation or drank it away on beer. So one dimension of flute buying is that it can be viewed
as a mode of investment. You can make a good deal of money…

Obviously, better flutes don’t necessarily make better players, practice is more important,
but they can be more expressive and, in part for that reason, more demanding. If there’s more in
'em, they can bring out more in you and in that way make for better players. Also they sound better
during the process and may work better in venues like sessions.

For some of us this thing is a passion, and if it is, well, Aanvil’s advice about the Doyle
is well taken; I don’t think I would go so far as the waiting list for the keyed Olwell, however.

Finally, for those for whom this is a passion, the Rudall/Pratten divide can become an obsession. One wants the voice
and also the fingering comfort that will carry one through happily for the long term. It helps to find a way
to get to know some different sorts of flutes, for that reason. That’s one reason, by the way, not to
commit to the long wait for the Olwell Pratten keyed without first getting an idea of whether
a Pratten is even for you. There’s also the possibility that you won’t ultimately care about keys
or perhaps not about all six of them.

In sum, money spent isn’t necessarily money gone. Sometimes it’s just taking a different form,
a form you can play. This isn’t helpful, of course, for people without money, nor is it of interest
for people who don’t care terribly about fluting. For the rest, there will be opportunities
to buy for less than 1000 dollars a good wooden flute, one you may able to sell
for at least what you paid. Maybe more.

—The Serpent In The Garden—

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUS0USTx3l4

29

You have already gotten a lot of good advice as regards making the next step for flute purchase. All I can add is that I’ve been quite pleased with my Somers flute and that you should keep an eye on the used instrument section of the forum. For example there is currently a nice keyless blackwood flute in your range (I have no info or connection to the seller) that you might want to consider: https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/fs-cochran-blackwood-flute-keyless-in-d/82278/1 I bet you could get a new barrel ring from Jon for a nominal cost and just slip it on to fix it up. IMHO this flute is a steal at the price listed.

30

Did someone say, “touchy feely purse fight”?

Edit: Let me say that my comment above has nothing to do with the merits of any of the flutes mentioned. I merely wanted to say that Aanvil’s comment in the preceding post was funny. I have never heard the expression “touchy feely purse fight”. I just wanted to say it myself, that’s all.

31

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: That is a good one, isn’t it? Aanvil, did you come up with that?

By the way, Doug, a fellow from our local just bought one of your flutes. I only got to hear it for a minute and have been away since, but the minute I heard sounded really nice!

32

Ha, that one was the one I played! It was really good. It seemed like that flute and mine seemed to have different trade offs (btw cat, I upgraded my latest one; huge difference, I wanted to show you at the last session, but you were gone…). The Tipple seemed to have a sweeter, better tone quality, and mine seemed to have ever so slightly more power, but not as nice a tone quality. Now, how to combine the two… That’s where having lots of different flutes from different makers comes in handy. Anyway, what Aanvil said about getting two great flutes is a good idea, but as Cathy, Loren, Jayhawk, Grahnwolf, and Gordon all pointed out, Aanvil’s approach doesn’t always work, and then, Cathy would know, it definitely won’t work in my position.

33

I’ll have to second (or third) the advice that you get a Folk Flute. I was lucky enough to get to meet Casey Burns in his workshop, and played several of his flutes. Apart from being an all-around great guy, he really seems to know what’s up when it comes to flutes. One thing he said was that since he makes so many Folk Flutes, he’s really had the chance to fine-tune and tweak the voicing, and that they sound equal to his higher priced flutes. The only thing the Folk Flutes lack is fancy metal rings, keys and decorative stuff. Having played several at his house, I ordered one and am counting the days till I get it. From what I’ve seen, you can’t go wrong ordering from Casey.

34

Hehe… Sorta. “purse fight” gets used on a private military aviation BBS I have inhabited for many many years… In fact it started as a USENET. I may have first used it there but I can’t recall. I think its fairly common netspeak these days. In fact there is a GIF out there somewhere of a couple of very elderly ladies flailing away at each other with rage fill purse swings. Which of course reminds me of what often happens here. Swipes all full of high horse piss and indignant vinegar but generally harmless. :smiley: the “touchy-feelly” part is just the way this board is… Some folks anyway. Which is fine… and it’s not the Mustard Board. Thankfully.

It’s a rough place, “teh internets” buck up buck-a-roos. :slight_smile:.

35

http://clutch.mtv.com/2012/03/09/gifs-old-people-fighting/

Fifth one down.

36

What’s wrong with the Mustard Board? It’s fine for it’s uses.

37

Oh don’t worry, I won’t come begging for either… even though I would really love to have one of them… :poke: :stuck_out_tongue:

38

I love “touchy feeley” and I love mustard also. Just sayin.

39

I bought a Healy fife. Wonderful instrument, easy to blow, plays in tune, sweet spot a mile wide, know any off note is my fault, etc. Never warmed up to it. I pick the thing up and blow a tune through it and say “that is lovely”…

…and I put it down deciding not to sell it and reach for my straight bored fife.

I like my hollow stick, it fits me, and I do not question if it is the fife or me.

Good advice none the less, but I find it did not fit me. I guess what I think is what a good flute should do is make the sounds I want to make.

40

The concept that you “grow out” of a flute is a sticky one. Outside of truly low-end, non-reputable flutes, many of the current crop of affordable Delrin, composite or folk flutes out there - Copley, Forbes, Burns, Sweet, et al - are flutes you might conceivably hang onto forever, regardless of what else you decide to own later. And many top end flutes, bought with the purpose of shooting for the ‘best’ right away, may not, ultimately, suit your particular style, hands, embouchure, tone, volume, etc., as you develop.

In other words, what flute you “grow into” is a moving target. I do agree a player should find the best flute they can - switching flutes constantly, unless that’s just part of the fun (and it often is), doesn’t really get anyone anywhere faster. And you certainly won’t go wrong with a top-end flute, if you can swing it - that’s not my point. It’s just that a beginner should keep in mind that going for the best flute money can buy right away isn’t always the same thing as owning the only flute you’ll want five or ten years down the road. So, unless money is not an issue at all, it’s better to start off with a good, practical flute first - and many of them are pretty good - 'til you decide what you really might want or need later. If money is an issue, you won’t really save money in the long run buying an expensive first flute, if you end up buying a different one or three later. And most of us do just that. Get a good flute and just start learning and practicing.