I have a Seery Delrin flute that’s about 6 months old. I really enjoy the sound this flute and its indestructible nature suits living situation well (father of three small children), HOWEVER, from the the first time I picked up the flute I was a bit bothered by the sharp edges on the holes. I’ve gotten used to it, but I’ve never liked the way the edges catch my fingers when sliding. I assumed that this was just a problem with using Delrin, but now I see that the edges of the famed Delrin Olwell on ebay appear to be quite smooth.
So, my questions are:
Is this just the way Desi Serry makes his flutes or is my flute unfinished?
If I smooth the outer edges by sanding will I change the voicing?
The holes on my Delrin Seery are the same way, I’d say.
They may seem a bit unfinished; could perhaps have been rounded off slightly. Never bothered me, though. So if it helps keeping the price down, I’m more than OK with it
No offense intended to the respective makers, but all of the M&E and Seery flutes I’ve seen/owned were seriously lacking in the detailed finishing work on the tone holes. But then, for the price, one probably shouldn’t expect the fit and finish of a $1000. instrument either.
In theory, no (or, not enough to matter), as long as the rounding is fine enough, as I understand the physics of it. If you take off too much material, though, it will effectively widen the chimney, and that will have an effect. If you trust your own workmanship enough, you could try it, but you may want to have a professional do the work for you.
My understanding is that Delrin is more expensive than blackwood. However, there are advantages in that the Delrin can be worked immediately, without need for wood to stabilize during the machining process. Additionally, there will be some wood losses, perhaps, due to cracks or wood defects discovered during the process, which set the flutemaker back in terms of lost time and material.
Delrin can make a flute cheaper to make, mostly because there’s none of the time-consuming work of obtaining supplies of good wood, turning it round, seasoning over many years, etc. But the Delrin makers do cut a few corners, or more precisely don’t cut a few corners, probably to keep their products competitive in price.
You will certainly do no harm, indeed considerable good by removing the sharp arrises around the finger holes, so go for it. But let me advise you against sanding as the means to get there. One of the disadvantages Delrin has is how hard it is to finish by normal means. It is hard to sand, being so slippery and flexible. But it carves quite well, so the way to remove the arrises is with a very pointy, very sharp knife. My favourite is the No 11 scalpel blade - perhaps you know someone who could lay their hands on such a thing. You can also buy craft knives with similar blades - straight with an included angle of about 30degrees.
While you’re at it, remove the arrises where the fingerhole meets the bore too. You should find that will free up the response considerably.
Take some extremely fine sand paper - wet better - and gently smooth the hole edges. No problem if you use TLC. I did on mine with no discernable effect
I agree that many of the less expensive Irish flutes that I have seen have unfinished finger holes. Some makers simply drill a finger hole and are done with it, leaving burrs in the bore of the flute. Finishing finger holes by hand can be a time consuming process. However, some finishing work on the finger holes can make for a flute that is more comfortable to play and more responsive.
Keep in mind that air is flowing through the flute and out the finger holes. As Terry mentioned, slightly rounding the fingerhole/bore edge will reduce resistance and improve performance. I use a half-round needle file (fine) to do this. It is also nice to have a riffle file that is bent in a curve to remove any burrs that may be in the bore of the flute at finger holes. You can get a Chinese riffle file set on Ebay for just a few dollars.
To make the top edge of the finger holes less sharp, I use the half-round fine needle file again. You can do it quickly with a sharp knife, as Terry suggested, but I think that this might take more skill that the average do-it-yourself flute player will have. Filing takes longer, but you have more control.
I have Seery delrin that is a couple of years old, that I just bought used from a board member, and the finger holes are smooth. It could be have been polished from playing, I couldn’t say.
I also have a friend’s M&E delrin standard on loan, that the finger holes are also smooth-and you can see (with a magnifier) some slight reamer marks left from the chamfering of the holes to remove any burrs, so they were finished.
Of course, on Doug Tipples flutes, you can do slides all day long, and not have any discomfort the way he finishes his!
Actually it is about a third of the cost of blackwood, (unless you buy blackwood by the ton). So I would say it is the fact that you can turn it in one sitting.
I use different grades of steel wool to finish Delrin. You can also take off the edge of the tone hole with 0000 steel wool.
Jon, have you priced this for delivery n Ireland (+ VAT) of such small quantities of Delrin stock as would be used by a small flute maker? I know that Desi was having difficulty because the agents only wished to deal in large quantites. So I believe it was (and possibly still is) costing him more than any blackwood source he might have.
Jon, have you priced this for delivery in Ireland (+ VAT) of such small quantities of Delrin stock as would be used by a small flute maker? I know that Desi was having difficulty because the agents only wished to deal in large quantities. So I believe it was (and possibly still is) costing him more than any blackwood source he might have.
Oh, still interested in seeing some of your flutes, now that I’m well on the mend. CT scan tomorrow should show how well this baby’s functioning.
Hi Kevin,
I never thought of the delrin prices in Irland… Living in LA you just order any quanity you want from McMaster carr and it will be at your door in the afternoon! I guess there isn’t any delrin plants in County Cork,
(Thank God!)
It is actually kind of hard to find in LA, except McMaster carr… It is also considered hazardous materials so they charge more for shipping, probably because it will burst into flames at the least provocation!
I hope you are feeling better after the hospital experence. Yes, we will have to get together, when you are feeling better.
Jon
As an instrument maker it’s my opinion, that the major difference in price is NOT due to the material used (Blackwood, Delrin, whatever) but in the workmanship (time spent on the details…or not.)
This is true, to some extent, but losses with good quality Grenadilla are small, especially when compared with some of the other popular flute woods, particularly English Boxwood: During a recent run we did making centers for alto recorders I started with over 100 pieces being rough turned, by the time I finish turned, reamed, re-reamed, cut tenons and basically got to the finally sorting before finish sanding (which would leave tone holes and cork slots still to be done) more than one third of the pieces were rejected as unsaveable. another 30 or so had to be plugged, which left less than 30 pieces of the original 20 that were “perfect”. In the same sort of run with Grenadilla, we’d typically lose maybe 10-15% and would do very little plugging.
“Delrin can make a flute cheaper to make, mostly because there’s none of the time-consuming work of obtaining supplies of good wood, turning it round, seasoning over many years, etc.”
Agreed, these factors obviously make a difference, however…
“But the Delrin makers do cut a few corners, or more precisely don’t cut a few corners, probably to keep their products competitive in price.”
…most of the delrin flutes I’ve seen owe more to this set of items, which is fair enough, since there is a particular niche to fill, which works out nicely for both the players and makers of said instruments. However, at the end of the day, how much less are you selling a Delrin flute than a Grenadilla flute, Terry
“You will certainly do no harm, indeed considerable good by removing the sharp arrises around the finger holes, so go for it.”
and then
"so the way to remove the arrises is with a very pointy, very sharp knife.
You have far more faith in Rookie mods than I do!!!
