Hi all, I want to study how to compose celtic style of music with whistle, I know what is celtic music, I know how to listen, but don’t know how to compose, does anyone can give me some hints about this ? Thanks.
( if you are pro musicians, please leave your comment!, Thanks a lot )
[ This Message was edited by: lkthomas on 2003-01-08 21:14 ]
[ This Message was edited by: lkthomas on 2003-01-09 12:34 ]
Oh, sorry! I opened this one by mistake! You addressed your post to MUSICIANS. Does being a musician require talent? I guess I probably don’t qualify then.
paul, don’t worry, just comment please if you know anything about this…
Being new to celtic music I can’t say from experience how to compose it, but I have been playing guitar in another genre for years and the rules should be fairly universal. What you have to do is listen to lots of different musicians and find the ones that move you. Let them influence you until you find your own style. The actual composition is just a bunch of notes that fit together to make a tune… it’s your style and the emotions that you put behind your work that will show through in the end…
Hope that helped. 
Ask yourself what you’d say to someone with an electric guitar, asking you, “so, how do I compose music on this thing that sounds like rock n’ roll?”
Really, there are many thousands of beautiful traditional Irish/Scottish tunes already there for you to learn, and after you learn many bunches of them (and visit sessions) composition should come naturally. Until then, maybe it’s better to participate in the tradition and learn new tunes.
Caj
Mhhh…
Well, since you say you know how to listen, why don’t you do it ?
It’s the best quick and dirty recipe I can see…
Hi LK,
I’ll have a stab at this, as I’ve composed a couple of tunes when the mood grabbed me.
Can you read sheet music? If not, use ABC notation. Irish (Celtic) music is all in the feel, and no form of notation can capture that, so don’t bother to try. The sheet music/notation is just for the bare notes of the tune.
a) listen to LOTS of tunes, about a couple of hundred jigs, reels, airs, polkas, mazurkas, & slides, for which you have the sheet music/notation (abbreviated to smn from now on. Listen to old tunes & recent tunes, tunes played solo, and in complex arrangements (e.g. Lunasa style).
b) When you’ve got the tunes in your head, so you can whistle them (on a whistle or with your lips), try following the tunes with the smn.
Remember, you’ll just get the bare bones of a tune, the notes, the order the arrive in & their length. No advice like “addagio” or “sprightly” or any classical malarkey like that.
c) Notice how certain runs & phrases tend to reappear, and give you that Irish feel?
d) Try writing your own stuff. Take an event (The Key Broke in the Lock, Dad Fell Down the Stairs, Tread on the Cat) or a person in you life (Eileen O’Donnel with the Long Black Hair, The Lollipop Lady, The Cutie Pie Polka) and think how you feel about it. Now put that feeling into your tune.
e) See how easy it is? Most Irish Dance Tunes have an A and a B part, sometimes a C part. Each part (of eight bars) should have a distinct feel - usually the B part is pitched higher than the A part, and is more lively.
f) OK, here’s how I did a couple (AAADD and It’s Sickening Polka) which even I don’t play regularly. Pick a starting note or phrase. Play it. Write it down. What note comes next? Up down or the same, same length, shorter or longer? Write it down. Continue until the tune is finished.
g) Play it. Amend it. Ornament it. Present it to C&F and see if anyone likes it.
h) Job done. Sit back hand relax, and wait for the royalties to roll in. Oh, actually, most Irish music is not copyrighted, so you’re doing this for the love of the music, not for any profit.
OK, so writing music is not easy, but I hope amongst all that some of it is useful!
I have composed a few Irish tunes (airs and faster pieces) and it’s really a matter of knowing the notes in the scale you’re writing it in and letting it write itself, or come out as it wants to. Then if something is slightly awkward to play, you can change it a bit.
I REALLY think you should change your subject title to “Seeking advice on composition.” Your current title asking all “guys” to read is not only indirect and unhelpful, but also sexist.
As a starter exercise, it’s fun/interesting to take a traditional tune and change the rhythm (e.g., turn a reel into a jig or vice versa) or the key/mode (e.g., transpose a G major tune to D minor). Or turn some or all of the intervals upside down.
IMHO “guys” isn’t really sexist anymore, not when a group composed of men and women (or indeed of all women) can be addressed as “you guys.” The way the word is used now, I don’t think it has the gender-specificity that it used to. “Lads” works the same way in Ireland, as far as I can tell. On the other hand, lkthomas’s subject heading did make me wonder if he was soliciting for dating advice or something. 
sorry, I am really busy in these a few days, I might read this at weekend, will reply later, Thanks.
“Hey, guys” and “you guys” are not the same as “all guys - please read.” It implies that “chicks” are not welcome. I understand that English is not the poster’s first language and it wasn’t intended that way, but it does look that way.
lol…I thought the same thing Jessie.
You’ve got to find some way of saying it without saying it. – Duke Ellington
Making music should not be left to the professionals. Good songs write themselves. We’re lucky enough to take the credit.- Danielle Egnew
Do not under estimate heart & desire because anything is possible if you work hard enough at it – Alan Troxell
If you are a songwriter, or aspire to be one, I want to tell you what I so strongly believe: only you can write the songs you write.
Many of us are tempted to write within a formula or to “craft” a hit song. There is great strength in structure and timing, so I endorse obedience to the internal rules of each song. But that’s not the same as formulaic writing.
Music is eternity, so keep it melodic. – Dominick Bianco
Write a song that you know won’t sell. This will help you truly clear out your emotional closet. – Danielle Egnew
No artist is pleased…there is no satisfaction whatever at any time. There is only a strange, divine dissatisfaction, a blessed unrest that keeps us marching and makes us more alive than the others. – Martha Graham
Too many pieces of music finish too long after the end. – Igor Stravinsky
Let music compose itself. Just guide it. – Gagnez LeJeu
When you make music you are acting as a philosopher. You can either do that consciously or you can do it unconsciously, but you’re doing it. – John Cage
Composition is a way of living out your philosophy and calling it art. – Brian Eno
Lyrics run out after the melody like children after an ice cream truck. – Danielle Egnew
Music is that which sustains you, expressed as sound. – Peter De Baets
Having no silence in music is like having no black or white in a painting.
What has worked before is never as good as something that has never been tried before, even if it doesn’t work. – Jimmy Webb
Channel music. Don’t make it. The water from the river is more alive than the water from the bottle. – Danielle Egnew
Time is the musicians’ canvas – cruzbeatz
Music is the language that can only be heard when you get your own thoughts out of the way. – Danielle Egnew
Your responsibility is to tell the truth, not the facts, necessarily. It could be the facts, but it’s basically the truth. That means being a truthful person.
You can’t tell the truth in your work if you don’t tell the truth in your life. So I encourage you to be scrupulous in your truth ethic.
Even when no one’s looking - especially when no one’s looking. Just for yourself. – Rosanne Cash
Talk doesn’t cook rice. – Chinese Proverb
A composer is a guy who goes around forcing his will on unsuspecting air molecules, often with the assistance of unsuspecting musicians. – Frank Zappa
Without writing bad songs, how could any of us have a sense of self-esteem when we write good ones? A bad song in your catalogue is a shot in the arm later. – Danielle Egnew
Truly write a song about your mother. And then see if you can get though it without crying. – Danielle Egnew
Do not under estimate heart & desire because anything is possible if you work hard enough at it – Alan Troxell
In your music, do not strive to write what sells. Strive to write the most accurate representation of what you are. You are unique enough to sell. – Danielle Egnew
Why do they use an axe when a hatchet would work as well? – Confucius
Silence is very important. The silence between the notes are as important as the notes themselves. – Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
I don’t write my songs - they write me. – David Williams
The question is, “What are you saying with the guitar?” - Not “Can you play this lick?” or “What’s your speed like?” It’s, “What are you saying with your instrument? What is being communicated in this song?” – The Edge, U2
Every real creation of art is independent, more powerful than the artist himself and returns to the Divine through its manifestation. It is one with man only in this, that it bears testimony to the mediation of the Divine in him. – Beethoven
There’s nothing worse than a brilliant beginning. – Pablo Picasso
The act of listening is in fact an act of composing. – John Cage
If you are a songwriter, or aspire to be one, I want to tell you what I so strongly believe: only you can write the songs you write.
Many of us are tempted to write within a formula or to “craft” a hit song. There is great strength in structure and timing, so I endorse obedience to the internal rules of each song. But that’s not the same as formulaic writing.
What you really have to offer is YOUR unique vision. Please give us this gift. We need it. – Patti Witten
The mind must be trained to follow the flow of the heart’s river. – Michael Hedges
Music is the language that can only be heard when you get your own thoughts out of the way. – Danielle Egnew
Trained vocalists have an amazing way of cracking crystal. Passionate vocalists have an amazing way of cracking hearts. – Danielle Egnew
Give thanks to God, however you understand Him, for your music successes. After all, it’s his language you’re cashing in on. – Danielle Egnew
Creating your image requires looking outside yourself. Creating your music requires looking inside yourself. In entertainment, we are no different than the Campbell’s Soup Can, where the outside sells the inside. – Danielle Egnew
If you can’t write anymore right now, don’t worry. You’re not supposed to write anymore right now. – Danielle Egnew
Do not be afraid to be yourself. An image will crumble under the first sign of weight without some truth in its construction. – Danielle Egnew
All I can say is, wow, Gary… incredible quotes! Hopefully they will be heard and taken to heart.
Andrea ~*~
Martin Milner, what’s different between ABC notation and a normal sheet music ? is it easy to compose or ?!?
Zubivka, you can do calculus is not same as you know how to make a calculus question, same logic…
lk,
I can see that you’re very excited by the music and the instruments and I think that that is a wonderful thing. I think that you should grab it with both arms and really make it yours…
…but I think that you’re going a bit too fast. Slow down a little. Take a breath. In the short time that you’ve been with us, you’ve asked about what whistle to start out with, how to make an Irish rosewood flute, the difference between a flute and a low whistle, how to compose the music and most recently about what an Uilleann pipe is.
I think that’s great! Keep asking, keep learning! But it is clear that you’re just beginning this trek - it will take time to process all of the information that you’re taking in. There aren’t any formulas, like calculus. Zoob was right; consider just listening for a while. Understand the music first and then consider writting it.
Said with as much love as possible.
Erik
LK,
For ABC notation, see:
http://www.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc/
In short, it’s a quick and easy notational form using letters for the notes. I prefer to use normal sheetmusic, I don’t find ABC comes naturally to me, probably because I’ve been reading sheetmusic all my life. It’s worth being familiar with both forms.
One major benefit of ABC is that computers can read it & “play” the tune, as a midi file, so you can do a quick check on whether a tune is working out or not.
ErikT, heh, time is wasting everyday, LOL
Martin Milner, Thanks , will take a look..
Ref to link:
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?topic=8815&forum=1&0
Thomas,
I saw this over in the ITM section of the board. LOL, maybe there is a formula. Anyway, take it for what it’s worth
http://www.devachan.com/Community_Room/Tunesmithery.html
Erik