hello I am posting to see if anyone can help me /I have a silver Rudall Carte &C flute with 20 Charing Cross engraved on flute along with a plate with a name on it which I CANNOT MAKE OUT can anyone tell me anything about this flute /I do not play sorry /thanks for your time/christine
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We can probably work it out if we can see an image of the flute or if you can give us some letters of the wording as a hint. In this period, Rudall Carte made a number of silver flutes all based on Boehm’s bore. The images on http://www.oldflutes.com/hybrid.htm might help.
Terry
thank-you for your help the website was perfect /it looks like it would be the rockstro’s model 1851 flute the second flute in the picture under Carte 1851 system flute/if I might ask for your advise/ what would I do with this flute/it was left to me from my Grandmother/ again I do not play and very untalented in the music department
/thanks again for your time Terry/
Christine
Hi Christine. Thing is, even if some of us here do know a bit about flutes of the type you have, they aren’t really what most of us are interested in - we’re not the best pool of experts on them! That said, although they were very fine flutes of their era, most of the Rudall Carte cylinder bore (i.e. based on Bohm’s designs, though not necessarily with his mechanism) flutes of the mid-late C19th were not built to play at the same pitch as is standard today - they tend to be significantly sharp… so there isn’t a big market for them amongst modern players. Collectors may be interested, however. If your particular flute happens to be one that will play at modern pitch, then it is potentially worth rather more, though again, most players today would not wish to use a different key system to the now-standard Bohm system. Without rather more info - pictures, some measurements - we can’t really advise you much further. What I can say is that most of the Irish traditional music players who frequent this forum wouldn’t be interested in it under any circumstances - but there are a few of us who have a more general interest in the history and development of the flute. You may find other places on the Web where there are more folk who are more interested and have greater expertise in flutes like yours - though I’m not specifically aware of any, sorry.
Most modern high street music shops will not have any staff who know anything about these flutes, so no help there, I’m afraid, though a woodwind technician at such a store should be able to tell you what condition your flute is in in terms of playability - whether it needs an overhaul (very likely) or if there is any damage requiring repair work. They should also be able to tell you what pitch it plays at if a sound can be got from it. If you can find a local flute teacher they might also be able to tell you some of those things, though again, most modern classical players tend to know very little about older non-standard instruments.
Whereabouts are you, BTW? Are you in GB?
As for what you should do with it, well, we don’t know enough yet to say much… (we’re still not clear about which model it may be from what you wrote) but realistically this flute is unlikely to find regular use even if fully playable - and if it needs much work it may not be economically viable to pay for that. Donation to a museum, flogging it on eBay, offering it for sale through a specialist auction house are the obvious options. Also there is a man in London called Dr. Robert Bigio who has considerable specialist knowledge of these flutes and whom you could contact via his website. Tony Bingham is another British specialist. Stateside, apart from Rick Wilson (whose website Terry sent you to) the Shoreys know their stuff.
I hope there’s some help in that.
I’d think she’s in Canada
PS, Christine, if yours is indeed a Rockstro model (I think you may have meant to write Radcliff?), this may be of interest - indeed may be anyway - it is being sold on eBay by a restorer and dealer in Britain. It is very High Pitch from its 580mm “sounding length” (from centre of embouchure/blow hole to far, open end), which will limit its achievable price/value even given its near-pristine condition, rarity and fully playing order status (he would be unlikely to have it on eBay if it was fit for A-440!). (To be playable at modern Concert Pitch a Bohm/cylinder flute needs a sounding length of about 600mm.)
Thank-you for all the information posted /you have been very kind to lend your help.I will perhaps find a flute teacher hopefully to get some more information,perhaps they can tell me where I can donate the flute /and yes I am Canadian living in Hamilton Ontario/everyone has been quite kind to reply /thanks again eh!!!
Chrisitne
A quick Google on “Museum musical instrument collections Canada” produced this, a very sketchy perusal of which would suggest that if you wanted to give it to as local as possible a (suitable) Canadian museum, the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto looks like the best bet - assuming they are accepting! (But do check out he full list.) Or you could perhaps donate it to a charity of your choice for them to sell it if you don’t want to simply sell it yourself and keep whatever the proceeds may be. If you go down that route, try to advise them of what it is! However, if you have any family history information about how the flute came to be in Canada, who used it and in what context (which you should record to put with it in any event), then if you have a local museum in Hamilton they might be the best recipients.
However, all of the above is based on the instrument not being of interest to players. I and many others here, whilst conscious of the need to conserve such artefacts for posterity and care for them accordingly, consider that if playable and useful, musical instruments ideally should be in use! Can I urge you to establish that before you make any decisions? If it is a “goodie”, my personal feeling and advice would be that you should sell so that a player can acquire it and use it.
Please, please take some pictures of it and get out a tape-measure! It is easy to take adequate pictures using a mobile phone digital camera if you haven’t access to a “proper” digital camera - just take them fairly close-up in good but diffuse natural light (outdoors on a cloudy day is ideal!) and take several shots of each section from different angles as well as of the whole flute assembled - and try to do a close-up of the stamp. Then you can upload the pictures to a free web host such as Photobucket and post a link for us to go look. (Or e-mail them to one of us and we’ll do that bit - just say if you want an e-address.) You’ve seen the kind of picture to take on the Oldflutes website Terry sent you to, or go have a look at some of the pictures of flutes in the Flute Pictures Sticky Thread or here - you’ll get the general idea (all my pictures were done as I described, with a mobile phone camera).
Please also write out here on C&F exactly what you can read of the stamp (any and all markings) - use a magnifying glass, get young eyes on the case, whatever. We can discover quite a bit more just from the exact address and form of name of the firm, and the serial number should be there too - it may even be possible to date it precisely and even name the craftsman who was the main maker.
Lastly, with that tape measure, (preferably in mm though Imperial will do - and a workman’s steel hand-tape is best), with the flute put together and all sections pushed snugly home (don’t force it if anything jams! - just tell us if it won’t go right together without undue force) take and tell us the following two dimensions to the nearest mm (or 16th"): the overall length from end to end; the “sounding length” from the centre of the mouth/blow hole to the edge of the far, open “foot” end.
If you can give us that material, we can tell you so much more! Then you’ll be far better informed about what would be sensible choices for you and for the flute, which is what you came here for in the first place!
Oh, one person I forgot to mention previously is a flute expert in Canada - Susan Maclagan from Winnipeg - so that’s probably about as much help as someone in GB??? She might know of a good place to donate to if that’s the upshot. I also have Facebook connections with two young Canadian fluters, one from Toronto and one from Saskatoon, but currently in Ottawa - also not much help, I guess, but if you think they might be in reach, I could link you up via Facebook. They aren’t experts, but I could tell them what to do if they could lay hands on the flute. (If you’re on FB, come find me there - Jem Hammond.)