Here’s a tragedy on eBay! I wonder whatever happened to the rest of these poor instruments? Still, at least it brings up two more serial numbers for David Migoya’s catalogue. Any thoughts, David?
Just as an aside, re: a recent thread that discussed key typology, note the straight C nat key on the earlier one and the lobed touch to the later equivalent.
Thanks for the tip, have put a bid and will see how it progesses.
On a side note I am thinking of selling my Clementi Nicholson 7 key. It was reworked before I got it. This was my main flute before the Wilkes came.The Clementi plays great and is well in tune. I will start a new thread about it when I have some time.
Colin
An afterthought to my own post - this same source recently sold a Patent head joint without body - I wonder if it belonged to either of these remnants? I seem to recall the wood colour being a tolerable match to the later upper body here? Of course, if parts are not kept carefully together, only the upper body has the address and serial number, so it could be a headache to match bits up! That said, since the seller is selling off a collection, it seems not unlikely that the original collector may have kept provenance notes on the items in his collection and that the seller knows the parts came from different sources so could not belong together. But that is mere conjecture!
Jem, you didn’t save aside a photo of the patent head, did you? I’m just curious to see which endcap it had. For what it’s worth, my own Rudall is a 5000-series with the same address stamp as the single piece in the parts auction, and features a patent head. Cheers,
Rob
What on earth makes you think I’d do a thing like that, Rob?
Well…, actually…, as it just so happens…, 
I’ve got a running record of R&R and RC eBay sales starting about a year ago, chiefly for valuation purposes as well as interest! Yes, I’ve got the pics. Will take a few minutes to sort out hosting and posting… to follow.
Ahh, the photos from the listing are still available on eBay at time of posting, with excellent resolution - which I lost in my copies because I pasted them into a Word doc. So I won’t bother trying to post them here.
FWIW, I believe, but am not certain, that it was David Migoya (EDIT: correction - it wasn’t - see below) who bought the headjoint. Also, the end cap was the standard Royal Arms one with the fish-scale sides, not the fluted ones - identical to my own, in fact.
The colour of the timber does look a fair match for the later upper joint in the current sale. I’ve just been flicking back and forth between the pics and am increasingly suspicious!
Rob, did you see the stuff about Patent Heads on Woodenflute a couple of years back? If you didn’t and are interested as a PH owner, I can point you towards it/send you some of it.
Ah, yes. I tried once to find the auction myself, but didn’t manage to turn it up. I’ll try again just now. Meanwhile, I’d love to see any info on the patent head, as my one (or ones…I too purchased a spare) is in bits on the bench these last several months. Work in progress…
Rob
Rob, here’s a link to the first post in an edited version of a discussion that originally took place on Woodenflute, but which David Migoya then put on to his Rudall & Rose group on Yahoo! Just follow through the sequence from here if you find it interesting. There are, I think one or two other mentions of PHs elsewhere there, e.g. Terry McGee started a tuning range survey… if you browse or search it.
That forum is pretty much dormant for the last year or so, but there is some good stuff on it and, unlike Woodenflute, it is accessible. Let us know what you make of it.
There should be plenty of pics of PHs available once DM gets his revamped Catalogue up and running!
If you haven’t already seen it, I thing Terry McGee has an “exploded” picture of a disassembled PH somewhere on his website!
okay..,…now that i’ve seen it in two locations…i did not buy the patent head.
I’m not a fan of them because they are so heavy. I own one myself and promptly had it set aside for a custom headpiece. They are an engineering marvel to me, but that’s about it.
And to buy a solo like that would do me little good.
so…
Rob, is this the ivory Patent Head? A very unique thing, I believe, if it is indeed RR made.
I don’t think the patent head that Jem is referring to is part of the body being sold now…since it falls outside the serial numbers of the grouping that seemed to include patent heads: 5088-5580, of which I have 23 flutes located and 10 of them have PH (two of them are boxwood flutes).
There are two “blocks” of the flutes, one group medium-holed (5088-5249) and the other large-holed (5268-5580), although there are one or two that fall into the sequence that cross over, but they are largely consistent.
I guess it is possible this orphan PH could be of that sequence since the woodgrain of many of the flutes in that sequence are about the same. But remember, not every headpiece fits the body of any of the flutes.
Interesting that PH often were sold in groupings on the flutes.
And good thing you’ve got the eBay sales this year Jem…mine only go back to 2003, so nice to have a backup!
Of course, the auction house sales I’ve researched go back to 1975 (and I’m still inputting some!)
The RudallRose.com website is to be completed (to the extent that everything I’ve got catalogued will appear) Christmas week, when I’m off from work and plan to give it my full attention! Finally!
David, I owe you an apology. I tentatively assumed (as suggested by my carefully conditional language) that, as you had expressed your intention to buy the recent un-numbereed boxwood R&R on eBay, you had probably succeeded. (Sorry you didn’t!) The PH was acquired by the same person as won the boxwood flute. Given use of pseudonymous “handles” on eBay, I thought maybe it was you. Clearly it wasn’t, and I apologise again. I wonder if the identity of the winner (“clearcreek1” - US based) is known by any of us?
I’m a little puzzled by your mention of serial number ranges for PH flutes as my own (#4683) is earlier than the ranges you give, though 11 years after the Patent. Or have I just misunderstood your drift there?
Hi David! Yes, I’m referring to the ivory head you spoke of. At this stage, I’m fairly certain that the ivory head sleeve was added later, as a repair. I’m pretty sure it started life as an all-cocus patent head. Meanwhile, I’ve got all the bits I need in order to put it back to rights,which may be a fool’s errand considering how many people feel about patent heads. Mostly, I think it ought to be there to balance that extraordinary foot…
Rob
jem…as noted elsewhere, the identity of anyone on eBay ought to be left for that individual to say, not the rest of us to speculate. That’s the purpose of eBay’s anonymity.
But I am not that bidder. I am, as most know, rudall-n-rose. No small wonder.
The patent heads i spoke of in the post above were for the address and mark of the flutes noted in that discussion.
Patent Heads go back to 1832 and they come in groupings. I was comparing the PH flutes of the variety you noted with the ones in the current “parts” sale of Rudalls to show whether it could match up, as you speculated.
I hope that clears it up?
dm
Oh shoot… I just realized that Colin but in that first bid.
Well… I’m pretty easy to spot on eBay.
Yes, thanks, David, that does clear up my misunderstanding - makes perfect sense now.
Re: the eBay thing, precisely because of the anonymity (where chosen) I surmise that some people quite understandably may use one “handle” when buying and another when selling, or have multiple accounts/aliases for other purposes. I’m certainly aware of your R&R moniker. I wasn’t advocating “outing” the buyer either, just asking if anyone knew them, not that they identify them! Point taken, however, though (whilst fully understanding it tactically/commercially) I do find all the cloak-and-dagger stuff rather “off”.
The seller has other flutes on ebay at the moment.
Boosey & Hawkes Bb
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LARGE-OLD-BOOSEY-AND-HAWKES-FLUTE-EARLY-20TH-CENTURY_W0QQitemZ310004607792QQihZ021QQcategoryZ10183QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Small flute by D’Almaine & Co
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/OLD-BOXWOOD-FLUTE-BY-DALMAINE-AND-CO_W0QQitemZ310004596845QQihZ021QQcategoryZ10183QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
The seller indicates they came from a large collection he purchased recently - Andrew Kirby’s maybe??
David
Clearcreek is a esteemed member of the C&F…
Shhhhh! Don’t tell anyone… 
there is a search function 
Indeed - I’m sufficiently new at still at these computery things that frequently I don’t think of things that may seem obvious to the long-term experienced users and surfers who’ve watched it all develop and learned each new facility as it became available so that it is automatic for them to use such things. When you dive in the deep end as I have over the last couple of years, there are so many things that one’s own computer and the Internet can do that one does not even know about and may never discover if not told… and I don’t even remember all the ones I have discovered/been introduced to!
Denny’s point and link and Jon C’s helpful note make an interesting counterpoint to the hidden identity pseudonymy thing.
Ma started programming in the early '60s… 
to find someone you need to know what their name starts with…
Search/Search for Author: clearcr*
or
You have no new messages/new post/Find a username/clearcr*
Absolutely. Maybe you’ll see this flute anyway.
Kevin Krell