Is there a website which shows how to do rolls on a fiddle?
Thanks,
JP
You have to use more force than on a whistle, because the violin’s shape is not very easy to roll.
Just what I wanted to know!
There’s a brief desctiption on Cliff Moses’ hammered dulcimer ornaments page. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/4388/ornaments/ornament.html
Steve
To do tight rolls in the manor of K. Burke, P. Glackin, Dale Russ, and others takes a lot of practice. On the fiddle, not all rolls are positioned the same by everyone, but to get the feel of what the harder postions will eventually feel like, start with the first postion, on the A or E strings, placing the index finger in position first, then place the third finger down, then lift the other two (index and third) for an open string, and end the long roll with the index finger down again.
Important: change bowing after each complete roll (dropping down to the open string again inbetween) but keep repeating the roll till you have it smooth, till it sounds like the primary note is being sustained through the roll. After you have it smooth in equal time, you are ready for the delayed long roll, which involves holding the starting postion (index finger) down longer and snapping through the remaining positions faster. Eventually, this will give you the “flutter” you hear on the recordings.
The second postion is equally easy, starting with the middle finger, then the third, then an open string (skip the index finger on this one), then end with the middle finger. Many fiddlers use the index on this one instead of the open string, I do. When starting with the middle finger note, many fiddlers place the index finger down also, and keep it down through the middle finger roll.
After a while, you can do a roll during the same bow stroke as you are using on other notes (change bow strokes on the off beat as much as possible). Third position is difficult…you won’t need that for a while, but you’ll figure it out for yourself.
I took workshops from Burke, Russ, and travelled around with Skip Parente (Bothy Band/Night Noise-Triona’s ex husband) to learn the tricks.
The rolls on the fiddle are philosophically a little different from the whistle/flute, because we think of 3 notes with “blips” between them, but they (fiddlers) think of 5 quick notes.
Fiddlers (and banjists) have another ornament that does the same role as the rolls do for us: the triplet (bowed triplets, on the fiddle). Which one to use (roll or triplet) is a matter of personal style.
Thank you for the replies.
I did order a CD, upon recommendation, called, “An Historic Recording of Irish Traditional Music”, by Paddy Canny. Apparently he was very good at rolls on the fiddle. So now I’m having it rushed to my house. I do spend a lot of time practicing, so, after I print out the reply made by Lorenzo, I’ll go try it out.
Thanks again,
John Palmer
Do you think this would work the same way on mandolin?
JP
It’s hard to do rolls on a mandolin because of the short sustain. Mandolin players mainly use triplets. However, there’s a web site of bouzouki ornaments that Roger Landes taught at Zoukfest. Mark Fitzsimons put the page together.
http://www.greenmanhumming.com/html/zoukornaments/
Steve
John, I skipped one note in my description (I actually got the fiddle out to
double check 
). Glauber was right about the 5 quick notes.
The three basic rolls:
-
A string with 1st finger postion: B-D-B-A-B (1-3-1-0-1)
-
A string with 2nd finger postion: C#-D-C#-A-C# (2-3-2-0-2) or w/o the
open string C-D-C-B-C (2-3-2-1-2). Or substitute Cnat for C#. -
A string with 3rd finger postion: D-E-D-C#-D (3-4-3-2-3)
K. Burke also does an open-string roll…open-3rd finger-2nd finger-1st
finger-open. It’s also a quick flutter with a delay.
Paul Katopish and Mick Maloney do mandolin rolls, but pick each note of the roll individually (very fast action!). On fiddle rolls…some fiddlers break up the roll by switching directions of the bow somewhere in the middle. Bowed triplets is another ornament by lifting the tip of the bow slightly while quickly changing directions. That’s the bowed flutter you hear with Tommy Peoples alot.
right, lorenzo, i was going to add that. back when my elbow and shoulder would allow for fiddling, i was partial to bowed triplets. a matter of taste and style, i guess.